Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
- Thread starter brit84
- Start date
AdmiralB
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Possibly. If the speakers are perfectly matched, then no, there won't be a difference.
However, since no two speakers are ever 100% identical, you probably will be able to tell. Parallel will probably be smoother and more controlled, series will probably be a little spikier and loose.
Possibly. If the speakers are perfectly matched, then no, there won't be a difference.
However, since no two speakers are ever 100% identical, you probably will be able to tell. Parallel will probably be smoother and more controlled, series will probably be a little spikier and loose.
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
ok but by seriers and parallel which means 16 and which means 4?
i have a cab and head thatll do both to
ok but by seriers and parallel which means 16 and which means 4?
i have a cab and head thatll do both to
kmcguitars
GuitarArtologist
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Interesting. I'm not in disagreement with you.
I was just wondering why you almost never see a Bass amp run a 16 ohm load? Most I know of run at 8 or 4 ohms?
BTW, Good to see ya back Jeff.
Interesting. I'm not in disagreement with you.
I was just wondering why you almost never see a Bass amp run a 16 ohm load? Most I know of run at 8 or 4 ohms?BTW, Good to see ya back Jeff.
muttonchopsrule
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
in a 2x12, with 2 8 ohm speakers, 16 ohms would be series and 4 ohms would be parallel.
in a 2x12, with 2 8 ohm speakers, 16 ohms would be series and 4 ohms would be parallel.
Jeff Seal
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
I'm only "sorta" here right now, pain meds got my world upside down for the past three months...
I'll have to get back to you for the answer... I'm way "out of it" now!
JS
Interesting. I'm not in disagreement with you.
BTW, Good to see ya back Jeff.
I'm only "sorta" here right now, pain meds got my world upside down for the past three months...
I'll have to get back to you for the answer... I'm way "out of it" now!
JS
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AdmiralB
New member
Baltar
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
moep. theoretically this is in the range of hearing plants growing --
practically i always had the feeling that one highohmed speaker sounds
better - however.
this should just be a diffrence of how the speaker manufacturer builds
the two versions of the driver itself.
amp side: the damping factor (so more or less the capability of the amp
to handle the speaker) varies with impedance, so it must sound slightly
different
moep. theoretically this is in the range of hearing plants growing --
practically i always had the feeling that one highohmed speaker sounds
better - however.
this should just be a diffrence of how the speaker manufacturer builds
the two versions of the driver itself.
amp side: the damping factor (so more or less the capability of the amp
to handle the speaker) varies with impedance, so it must sound slightly
different
noth
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
If there is a 4 ohm and 16 ohm input, it's most likely that the 4 ohm hookup has the two speakers (which are probably 8 ohms each) in parallel. The 16 ohm input has them in series.
You will have to listen to which sounds better, because this will have a lot to do with your amplifier, which I haven't seen mentioned here. I'll explain why: With speakers, the lower the total impedance, the harder it is for the amplifier to drive them. The speakers will "pull" more current from the amp, and if the amp isn't strong enough, it may distort, shut down, or even blow. If your amp is okay with this, there is an upside - there will be more power available from the amp to drive the speakers. In theory, as the speaker impedance goes down, the amplifier power goes up. An ideal amplifier would deliver, for example, 50 Watts into 8 ohms, and 100 Watts in to 4 ohms. But no amp is ideal, and guitar amps tend to cut a lot of corners in design because price is so crucial. If a guitar amp can deilver about 50% more power into 4 ohms, that's pretty good. By comparison, expensive hi-fi amps will deliver close to double the power. I once designed a 25 Watt (at 8 ohms) amplifier with a huge amount of available current. It was often used with a full range ribbon driver loudspeaker that had an impedance of 1 ohm!! Nobody could understand how this 25 Watt amp drove this difficult load so well. It worked because into 1 ohm it could deliver 200 Watts!! Also, it's harder for tubes to deliver more current than transistors. (Power consists of both voltage and current). So as you can see, it's not a simple thing. What is the power rating of your amplifier? Does it specify 8 ohm and 4 ohm power? It is tube or solid state?
Now with 16 ohms, the speakers will want more voltage than current. That translates to a generally higher powered amp, because they will have the voltage necessary to drive a 16 ohm load.
What someone else said here is also true: Unless the speakers are perfectly matched, they will sound more different at 16 ohms (series)than at 4 ohms (parallel).
Try it both ways and let your ears decide. But if you prefer 4 ohms, check to see that the amp isn't running abnormally hotter than usual.
Hope this wasn't too technical.
Best of luck,
Noth
If there is a 4 ohm and 16 ohm input, it's most likely that the 4 ohm hookup has the two speakers (which are probably 8 ohms each) in parallel. The 16 ohm input has them in series.
You will have to listen to which sounds better, because this will have a lot to do with your amplifier, which I haven't seen mentioned here. I'll explain why: With speakers, the lower the total impedance, the harder it is for the amplifier to drive them. The speakers will "pull" more current from the amp, and if the amp isn't strong enough, it may distort, shut down, or even blow. If your amp is okay with this, there is an upside - there will be more power available from the amp to drive the speakers. In theory, as the speaker impedance goes down, the amplifier power goes up. An ideal amplifier would deliver, for example, 50 Watts into 8 ohms, and 100 Watts in to 4 ohms. But no amp is ideal, and guitar amps tend to cut a lot of corners in design because price is so crucial. If a guitar amp can deilver about 50% more power into 4 ohms, that's pretty good. By comparison, expensive hi-fi amps will deliver close to double the power. I once designed a 25 Watt (at 8 ohms) amplifier with a huge amount of available current. It was often used with a full range ribbon driver loudspeaker that had an impedance of 1 ohm!! Nobody could understand how this 25 Watt amp drove this difficult load so well. It worked because into 1 ohm it could deliver 200 Watts!! Also, it's harder for tubes to deliver more current than transistors. (Power consists of both voltage and current). So as you can see, it's not a simple thing. What is the power rating of your amplifier? Does it specify 8 ohm and 4 ohm power? It is tube or solid state?
Now with 16 ohms, the speakers will want more voltage than current. That translates to a generally higher powered amp, because they will have the voltage necessary to drive a 16 ohm load.
What someone else said here is also true: Unless the speakers are perfectly matched, they will sound more different at 16 ohms (series)than at 4 ohms (parallel).
Try it both ways and let your ears decide. But if you prefer 4 ohms, check to see that the amp isn't running abnormally hotter than usual.
Hope this wasn't too technical.
Best of luck,
Noth
wixedmords
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Good to see you Jeff. Hope you get better soon. :bigthumb:
PS. Noth, nice picture of Mr. West, I believe. He may be the king of "thick tone".
Good to see you Jeff. Hope you get better soon. :bigthumb:
PS. Noth, nice picture of Mr. West, I believe. He may be the king of "thick tone".
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devastone
Well-known member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Noth is right on, for tube amps it also depends on the output transformer as it uses more or less windings (provided you set the impedance selector appropriately) to match with the speaker impedance. So, set correctly, a 100W Marshall will try to put out 100W into 4, 8 or 16 ohms. So, the output tranny setting will also affect the tone.
Noth seems to be quite the amp expert, so I will default to his knowledge, I just thought it seemed interesting that no one mentioned output transformers on tube amps.
Noth is right on, for tube amps it also depends on the output transformer as it uses more or less windings (provided you set the impedance selector appropriately) to match with the speaker impedance. So, set correctly, a 100W Marshall will try to put out 100W into 4, 8 or 16 ohms. So, the output tranny setting will also affect the tone.
Noth seems to be quite the amp expert, so I will default to his knowledge, I just thought it seemed interesting that no one mentioned output transformers on tube amps.
noth
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Right you are. That's when he using Ed Roman Quicksilvers. There's a great new pic of him on the Dean site with the new guitar.
Noth
Right you are. That's when he using Ed Roman Quicksilvers. There's a great new pic of him on the Dean site with the new guitar.
Noth
noth
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Excellent point about the output transformers, devastone. I've been working with solid state for too long, and forgot about the output transformers with tube amps. Setting the tap to the appropriate impedance is certainly key. As you can see though, it provides a better match, and better tone I'm sure, but doesn't usually do much to increase power.
Noth
Excellent point about the output transformers, devastone. I've been working with solid state for too long, and forgot about the output transformers with tube amps. Setting the tap to the appropriate impedance is certainly key. As you can see though, it provides a better match, and better tone I'm sure, but doesn't usually do much to increase power.
Noth
devastone
Well-known member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Didn't mean for it to sound like it would "increase" power, but it keeps the output consistent for different loads where a SS power amps output would go down as the load goes up. Although, plugging a 16 ohm cabinet into a 100W Marshall (or any tube heat) set on the 8 ohm setting will probably not cut the power in half, it will probably still try to put out 100W but put undue stress on the tubes and some on the output tranny (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Tubes and SS are 2 different worlds, I think of tubes as being more organic and flexible and SS as being more cold and brittle at least from a design point of view, there have been some great sounding SS amps, but the majority are the lower end cheap amps that everyone associates with SS. I'd love to check out the new Randall Valve Dynamic amps but I dont' think there is a dealer for a few hundred miles around here.
noth said:
Didn't mean for it to sound like it would "increase" power, but it keeps the output consistent for different loads where a SS power amps output would go down as the load goes up. Although, plugging a 16 ohm cabinet into a 100W Marshall (or any tube heat) set on the 8 ohm setting will probably not cut the power in half, it will probably still try to put out 100W but put undue stress on the tubes and some on the output tranny (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Tubes and SS are 2 different worlds, I think of tubes as being more organic and flexible and SS as being more cold and brittle at least from a design point of view, there have been some great sounding SS amps, but the majority are the lower end cheap amps that everyone associates with SS. I'd love to check out the new Randall Valve Dynamic amps but I dont' think there is a dealer for a few hundred miles around here.
Baltar
New member
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
:blackeye:
i think you completely missunderstood me.
the damping factor of an amp is different for 4 or 16 Ohms.
the way it does affect sound should also depend on the amp
:blackeye:
i think you completely missunderstood me.
the damping factor of an amp is different for 4 or 16 Ohms.
the way it does affect sound should also depend on the amp
Stratman
Guitaris Maximus
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
Jeff works at Speaker Surgeon in Texas and has lots of experience!
He fixed amps, designs amps, fixes speakers , is a tone guru.
Was the supporter of the first Seymour Duncan Forum members jam session back in 2002!
Nuff said!
Jeff works at Speaker Surgeon in Texas and has lots of experience!
He fixed amps, designs amps, fixes speakers , is a tone guru.
Was the supporter of the first Seymour Duncan Forum members jam session back in 2002!
Nuff said!
Re: Tonal difference between 4 and 16 Ohms?
@noth/other people who seem to know their ****
i have a messa boogie triple rectifier solo head(thats tubes in case ya dont know) running through a marshall 1960 cab
the head can do almost any friggin speaker setup(theres 14 examples in the manuel!) and has 4, 8 and 16 ohm outputs, the cab can do 16 or 4
what diference will it make sonically?
thanks
@noth/other people who seem to know their ****
i have a messa boogie triple rectifier solo head(thats tubes in case ya dont know) running through a marshall 1960 cab
the head can do almost any friggin speaker setup(theres 14 examples in the manuel!) and has 4, 8 and 16 ohm outputs, the cab can do 16 or 4
what diference will it make sonically?
thanks
