Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

[ledzepp29]

I was cursious if someone who has played both or knows what each are capable of could help me out. Christian(The guy who invented fire) and I have talked about this somewhat, I plan on getting either one of those but I've been leaning towards the 1987x (and then modding it w/ post PIMV so it I can get usable overdrive at lower levels) lately. I've come across amps like these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38075&item=7308373539&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW which have definately caught my interest, this one has 2 channels, one being the regular 18 watt style, the other one with more gain. The amp has a master volume which is something I'll need. I have heard that the 18 watters are like a reasonable volume version of a plexi but still very loud. Keep in mind that I'm not looking to nail that plexi sound but it is the type of tone I'm after. If you have any input I'd love to hear it! Thanks

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

the plexi tone is based on lots of variables, one being the sheer power of rumbling 4x12's w/ speaker distortion, the 2 preamp tube gain stage bassman style, and lots of power tube distortion out of 4 el34's/kt66's

I'm sure you'll be very very pleased with the effect you'd get with that 18 watter-tons of sustain and pure tube gain with the volume near dimed. I'm sure the 18 watt plexi would handle band jams and small gigs very well, and you'd get the tone you want at those volumes.

If i were you i'd go for it. You're getting awesome marshall plexi tone, but with more gain at command at good volumes.

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

18 watters are AWESOME, but I find they tend to get pretty farty and nasty when you dime them, but in a really cool way. I will own/build one one day.

 

[RiffRaff]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

I've played through the marshall handwired 20 watter (plexi version) and it pretty much nails the plexi tone through their 2x12 verticle cab - awesome at reasonable volumes - still pretty damn loud. I've heard the 18 watter - trem model - and it sounds a little more compressed with the sag you'd expect from an amp with a tube rectifier - I like both, I'm having a custom 18 watt single twelve combo built, I like the sweetness of the 18 watt, it's just my preference but both of the low wattage amps really great sounding amps. Supposedly the new celestion aged greenback makes the tone of the 18 watt combo marshall is now making - I played the 20 watt plexi head through the marshall single 12 cabinet and it sounded good but I liked it more through the 2x12 cabinet - it crunched like a little monster.

Neither amp had any low end looseness - tight and punchy even with HB's. I'm expecting my amp this week or early next week. I'll post some info on it with some pictures - I'll try and put some clips up as well.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

it should be known that the 18 watt and the 20 wqtt Marshalls are two completely different amps, IMO the 18 watter sounds MUCH better! Now the 18 watter has a pretty cool tone, and will break up lots quicker but IMO does not capture the plexi vibe. Both amps are very cool, and I think you'd be happy with either way...

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

The 18 and 20 Watters are not really THAT different, but the effects of the 20 Watter's solid-state rectifier are far-reaching. It gives the 20 Watter higher voltages throughout. Most people prefer the 18 Watter, but I like my "13 Watter" with its SS recto.

Overall, the 18 Watter is a bit more compressed and responsive due to rectifier sag.

Warning! Master volumes do not work all that well on 18 or 20 Watters. Due to their simple design (one preamp stage->phase inverter->output stage) there is not a lot of gain in the early stages. Most of the 18 Watter's overdrive comes from the PI driving the snot out of the output stage's EL84's (yes, that's the proper technical terminology). Even a post-PI MV won't work, since it removes PI gain, and the resulting output stage overdrive.

The good news is that since they are fairly low-power amps, load attenuators are cheap. I have a Weber mini-MASS that works great and only cost $75. Other folks have had good results with a simple L-pad speaker attenuator from Radio Shack that only costs about $10. These work fine on an 18 Watter, whereas a normal 50 or 100 watt Marshall would burn them right up.

As to whether the 18 and 20 Watters nail true plexi tone, I'll leave that question to others, as I've never really played a plexi or any classic non-master Marshall. I will say that I like my mongrel "13 Watter" more than any of the JCM800's I played back in the 80's. Also, search 18Watt.com and AX84.com for threads comparing 18 to Plexi to November. (The November is an AX84 project plexi-with-EL84's. Lots of folks like it, but the 18Watt guys tend not to have much nice to say.) The AX84 "P1 Extreme" is also reputed to do classic Marshall pretty well, though it's a single-ended amp.

Definitely try it before you buy it. Anyone near Houston is welcome to come over and play my 13 Watter anytime. If you're not near any of the manufacturers of 18 Watt clones, at least get to a GC and try out one of the reissue handwired Marshalls, whether you intend to buy it or not. That will give you some idea of how they sound.

Good luck with your quest. Post here or e-mail me if you want to talk more.

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

The 18 and 20 Watters are not really THAT different, but the effects of the 20 Watter's solid-state rectifier are far-reaching. It gives the 20 Watter higher voltages throughout. Most people prefer the 18 Watter, but I like my "13 Watter" with its SS recto.

Overall, the 18 Watter is a bit more compressed and responsive due to rectifier sag.

Warning! Master volumes do not work all that well on 18 or 20 Watters. Due to their simple design (one preamp stage->phase inverter->output stage) there is not a lot of gain in the early stages. Most of the 18 Watter's overdrive comes from the PI driving the snot out of the output stage's EL84's (yes, that's the proper technical terminology). Even a post-PI MV won't work, since it removes PI gain, and the resulting output stage overdrive.

The good news is that since they are fairly low-power amps, load attenuators are cheap. I have a Weber mini-MASS that works great and only cost $75. Other folks have had good results with a simple L-pad speaker attenuator from Radio Shack that only costs about $10. These work fine on an 18 Watter, whereas a normal 50 or 100 watt Marshall would burn them right up.

As to whether the 18 and 20 Watters nail true plexi tone, I'll leave that question to others, as I've never really played a plexi or any classic non-master Marshall. I will say that I like my mongrel "13 Watter" more than any of the JCM800's I played back in the 80's. Also, search 18Watt.com and AX84.com for threads comparing 18 to Plexi to November. (The November is an AX84 project plexi-with-EL84's. Lots of folks like it, but the 18Watt guys tend not to have much nice to say.) The AX84 "P1 Extreme" is also reputed to do classic Marshall pretty well, though it's a single-ended amp.

Definitely try it before you buy it. Anyone near Houston is welcome to come over and play my 13 Watter anytime. If you're not near any of the manufacturers of 18 Watt clones, at least get to a GC and try out one of the reissue handwired Marshalls, whether you intend to buy it or not. That will give you some idea of how they sound.

Good luck with your quest. Post here or e-mail me if you want to talk more.

Thanks for all the info, but the most i can do is read everyone elses input because there are abosolutely no GCs any where near me nor any music stores that would carry a nice amp like a plexi or 18 watt. The only thing they ever have is dsl heads...

so you mean that an 18 watt style head with a master like the one in the auction through a 1x12 wouldn't sound that great at lower volumes( not whisper levels but just not that loud) I'll search the 18 watt forum and see how much info I can get. Thanks

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

here's some sound clips I found. this is a TMB 18 watt clone. Which is the same thing as the one in the auction-which is one normal 18 watt channel and one "TMB"(treble, middle, bass) channel. The TMB has more gain and a master volume. Pretty close to a plexi, the second clip sounds amazing ! IMO

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

I don't have a 18 watt Marshall or plexi clone but my Z IS 18 watts and is D@MN loud. Loud enough I can't dime it for my overdrive because I drown everyone out. I think the post PI master would be a GREAT mod for any amp where you want gain.

Luke

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Tonal differences between marshall 18 watt style and plexi?

here's some sound clips I found. this is a TMB 18 watt clone. Which is the same thing as the one in the auction-which is one normal 18 watt channel and one "TMB"(treble, middle, bass) channel. The TMB has more gain and a master volume. Pretty close to a plexi, the second clip sounds amazing ! IMO

Where do you live? Post at 18 Watt and AX84 to see if anyone has an 18 Watter and lives near you (at least within a weekend roadtrip distance).

Yeah, the TMB is supposed to be a great amp. It's got more of a Plexi-like preamp channel, so a MV might work better. You can get some overdrive in the preamp stages, then turn the Master down. The plain 18-Watt channels don't overdrive much. In those amps, most of the overdrive comes from the output stage, and an MV kills it.

I'll second the opinion that these puppies are loud. Mine is only 13 watts since it uses ECL86 output tubes instead of EL84's. It's still way too loud for playing at home (which is the only place I play anymore). So, I'm now designing another amp, a basic 18 Watt Lite II, but with 6AK6 output tubes. I'm hoping for <5 Watts out.

I say get yourself a TMB and a Mini MASS.