Tone cap Question

[ssmith432KC]

Been playing guitar for 50 years but I am a newbie with the electronics and wiring. I have semi retired so I have taken an interest that side of things. I recently started changing a few pickups in my telecasters. During this process I have become curious and wanting to experiment with different tone caps.

I noticed in the Fender signature Brent Mason that the tone cap is a .05 uf. A lot of guitars have .047 in them and .022 .

How much of an audio difference could there be between a .05 and .047 ?

 

[GuitarStv]

I often use 0.010 and 0.015 tone caps on the bridge pickup - these will roll off just highs. I'd assume that a 0.005 would just take away the highest highs.

 

[freefrog]

.05 and .047 (IOW: 50 and 47 nanofarad) are so close that an over-capacitive .047 and an under-spec' .05 might measure strictly the same, with a same tonal effect: shifting down the resonant peak of a Tele single-coil at approximatively 500hz and rolling off frequencies beyond that. I would be +/- 730hz with a 22nF cap...

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, in any real-world situation, I challenge anyone to tell the difference between .047 and .05.

 

[jeremy]

old fender tone caps are .1 mfd. .047 mfd and .022 mfd are typical values. .01 and .015 roll off less highs and can be very useful.

the difference between a .05, if you can find one, and .047, which is a commonly available value, is negligible when considering tolerances

 

[ssmith432KC]

Thanks everyone .I read in Ron Ellis FAQ the he recommends .047 on his single coils . I pulled my cover plate off one of my teles and it has .022. I would like the highs on my neck pickup to be just a little tamer. There not to bad but just not what I want when I roll the tone back some. I have some .05 so I just might try that.

 

[GuitarStv]

Whoop, sorry I misread where the decimal was in my response. Have updated it now.

 

[ssmith432KC]

Whoop, sorry I misread where the decimal was in my response. Have updated it now.

No issue. I kind of read it the right way. Thanks

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I've found a very small tone cap - like .001uF - can work really well for PAF style bridge humbuckers.
It mellows the harshest highs and flattens the resonant peak a little, but leaves plenty of definition.
Sometimes useful all the way to zero - rolled way back it gives a perceptible midrange hump.

Entirely different effect from regular values in the lowest range of the sweep.
With a conventional cap - even .022uF - I seldom go much below 5.
Never tried the tiny cap trick on a Tele bridge though.

 

[jeremy]

i use a .01 in a few strats on the bridge pup and i like it, not sure id wanna go smaller than that though.

 

[larryguitar]

If you often have the tone control turned all the way 'down' and still find the tone too bright, you may want to switch to a 'larger' cap. If you have a 0.22 and feel like the tone is too bright with the tone rolled all the way off, you may want to try a 0.47. Keep in mind these values only really come into play when the tone is turned FULLY down; until then, you're using a proportional fraction of the cap's total potential treble roll-off.

Larry

 

[ehdwuld]

If you take two .022 caps in parallel
they become a .044 together

If you have a humbucker that you want to use a 22 with and a single that you would prefer a 47 with

You can set this up on the switch with
The standard 22 hardwired to the tone control
And another 22 wired to the single coil switch position so that when the single is selected
the second set of terminals on the switch adds teh second 22 to the tone control


If you have a bunch of 22s put them in parallel to get 44

If you have 47s then use them in series to approximate a 22 (23.5)

 

[freefrog]

I've found a very small tone cap - like .001uF - can work really well for PAF style bridge humbuckers.

+1 on the usability of such low value caps. A 1nF as aforementioned also makes sense with Strat PU's, since it voices them like Quarter Pounds... the power is not there with the cap, of course, but the voicing is. ;-)

Up to 4.7nF, such low value caps are also a cheap and easy way to mimic the effect of very long capacitive cables (Bill Lawrence did recommend a 2.2nF for an Hendrix coily cable greasy midrange)...

Finally and to share something more precisely on topic: with a typical Tele bridge PU (in the 3H inductive range), a cap of 0.01µ (10nF) or less than this is what allows to affect harmonics only, without altering high fundamental notes that "traditional" values do roll off.

 

[Chistopher]

If you're a nerd with nothing else to do, read up on the E series. The part values are chosen so that if you have a certain number of component values at a certain tolerance, the highest in-spec values of one component will equal the lowest in-spec value of the next component up. All series will have 1, but E3 for example has 3 values: 1, 2.2, and 4.7. With a tolerance of 40% The highest 1 component will read 1.4 and the lowest 2.2 will read 1.32.

 

[Chistopher]

Also contrary to what you would think, 0.5 is a much harder value to find than 0.47 because 0.47 is part of the cheapest E series, and 0.5 is not part of any E series.

 

[ehdwuld]

some years ago I bought a pound of 22s
and use pairings as described in my previous post for the values i desire

also I find no difference in Paper in Oil, or ceramic, or mylar, or any other boutique cap

 

[jeremy]

i dont really hear a difference in caps in a guitar, in an amp i believe i do

 

[ehdwuld]

I believe the ones in amps may need to be of a higher voltage than those used in a guitar

back when I first started modding my guitars
I got a Paper in oil cap from Mojotone and I believed it was superior

but I find now that it just occupies more space in the cavity

for the record
the PIO cap is still in my RG2 no reason to swap it out unles someone wants it for $12

 

[jeremy]

i usually use orange drops, cause thats what i have laying around. but ive used little ceramic disks and they work just fine. i have some pio, even some vintage ones, and i dont really hear a difference

 

[ErikH]

You don't hear a difference in the different cap types / same value in a guitar because, as Lew mentioned many times here and I agree, the cap is sending the signal it is filtering out to ground. If somebody can hear what is going to ground, they have the best hearing of any human being.

I like .022 or .047. Have used .033 before and it's a nice middle between the two. Green chicklets, little ceramic or orange drops if I have them. Neither of which are expensive.