Tone? Have to say I agree with a lot of this

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

Not all of it, but a lot of it.
some good info here, I thought .
Ymmv

 

[Erlend_G]

Glenn is awesome!

I am surprised how great it sounded, double tracking/micing two different speakers in the same cab .

Always wanted to try a hemp speaker.

 

[NegativeEase]

Not all of it, but a lot of it.
some good info here, I thought .
Ymmv

Yeah, mostly on point as usual -he usually makes some good vids -we all discussed this on this forum many times -Speakers, Cabs, and Pickups are the big 3.

He doesn't open up some important cans of worms when it comes to recording guitars -like Mic Pres and mic placement -which can be huge in the equation as well -but I get that he's isolating things for brevity.

That guys obsession and boner for mediocre *ss Reaper is hilarious though -this was the first vid of his I've seen where he didn't mention it -thank god.

One thing he gets wrong-ish though is a players hand do impart much the of the tone, he's just not wanting to open that pandora's box up for the purpose of a metal video with guys playing super compressed sounds from barre chords -because -yes certainly it matters less in that scenario. But find me a flatpicker, jazz player or a very melodic player and suddenly it makes a giant difference.

When he does the Hemp and G12 blend demonstration -it's in stereo and then the V30 is mono -I think thats a bit disingenuous -like he's fibbing a bit to strengthen his point.


Overall great vid though.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

I think he's kind of a tool in his demeanor sometimes, but he does bring up valid points.

I do however love how he bashes bassists all the time, that cracks me up.

I am in the "speaker >amp,> cab, > mic placement, > pickup" camp myself.

 

[Demanic]

I think he's kind of a tool in his demeanor sometimes, but he does bring up valid points.

I do however love how he bashes bassists all the time, that cracks me up.

I am in the "speaker >amp,> cab, > mic placement, > pickup" camp myself.

He' the type of guitarist where the bass player sets up his sound level for the amp while the volume knob of his active pickup bass is set on "3". Then, when the time comes, he rolls it up to "7".

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Watching this guy's demo of the Mooer Ge300 modeler was probably what gave me gas for one before I got mine...

I like his video's he's usually got some pretty cool practical recording/tone tips that I can gel with (& tends to speak his mind about stuff which is always a good thing...)

But yeah, tone IS in the fingers. That's #1 in the chain as far as I'm concerned. Getting a bunch of different dudes to strum a few chords won't demonstrate that though...

Still, pretty much agree with the rest of what he had to say..

 

[Erlend_G]

Tone for me, is the... "personality" and "life" of the amp / sound ...that makes or breaks it.

like, my cat was very critical to this factor. As well as my playing.

Often, old-as-heck guitars & gear has more of this... life.

and I have never heard a digital /modelig amp having much of it. In a mix, played trough a digital media- it might not be heard.

But playing alone, in a quiet environment; it can mean alot (to me).

I know this is an individual thing. Not meaning to be rude or start a discussion...

..i miss my old Marshall combo, it had "that" thing. Also, those limited production Ampeg 6v6 15w combos, had a very... fantastic reverb and tone
why did they stop produciton so soon? I would and could have gotten one, I took it for granted they would still be for sale a month later... now they are collectibles..

sorry for OT.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

I don’t think tone is in the fingers, I think “feel” is in the fingers. I can play two different guitars through two different rigs, and the tone will be different. Two different guitarists can play through the exact same setup, and the tone will be the same, but the feel will be different.

I can play guitar without using my fingers, and the tone of the instrument will be the same. The feel and dynamics won’t be the same though. Tone is the quality of the sound generated by the instrument, which in the case of the electric guitar is everything in the signal chain. Feel and dynamics come from the player. A car driven by different drivers won’t handle any differently, but it will be driven differently.

 

[LLL]

As a major tone whore I agree with much he says here; and after all, the speaker cab is the final filter (before it gets mic'd up).

However, I have to add this:

The more distortion that is introduced, the less any differences in various components of the signal chain will be audibly noticed.

This is due to the (extreme) compression and (extreme) clipping of the signal with your typical bourgeois high gain / metal tones.


Turn down the distortion and get into classic rock level distortion, and you'll hear actual/bigger differences between tubes, pickups, woods, even pick material, etc


Many players are, in a way, "tone-deaf" because the insane amount of distortion they have going on masks a lot of the tonal effect from the aforementioned components of their rig. Keep adding even more distortion, and eventually the "tone" (if you can call it that at that point) will be so compressed and lifeless, you'll hear nothing but the clipping (i.e. BUZZ BUZZ).

 

[GuitarStv]

I'm not sure the 'sound is not in the hands' thing that he's doing there is testing what I'd consider the 'tone in the fingers' argument.

He's got a bunch of people playing the same guitar through the same amp with ridiculous amounts of distortion. At those gain levels it masks picking dynamics and slight tonal variations from picking in different locations. Then he gets them to play a very generic part that doesn't include any bending or vibrato . . . two of the most individually expressive parts of guitar playing. Yeah, for high gain metal with no expressive parts . . . the fingers don't matter. Touch is much more important in other genres though.

I agree that there's minimal difference between different tube brands, and that speakers make a bigger difference than even swapping amps though.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

I would argue that bending and vibrato are not tone, they’re dynamics and expression.

It always amuses me when YouTube commenters say that Ola Englund sounds like Ola Englund whatever he plays through; yes, because he only uses a couple of different cabs, uses the same mics, and dials in the sound exactly how he likes it. It’s not like he’s using someone else’s settings and leaving them.

 

[GuitarStv]

I would argue that bending and vibrato are not tone, they’re dynamics and expression.

The dictionary definition of tone: "a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength"

Dynamics, pitch, and expression are all part of tone. I think that you're confusing tone with timbre: "the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity".

 

[NegativeEase]

The dictionary definition of tone: "a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength"

Dynamics, pitch, and expression are all part of tone. I think that you're confusing tone with timbre: "the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity".

Exactly, I hacked out a lengthy response to the idea in the video that frequency is all tone is -which is totally incorrect. -but you covered it more succinctly

Things like your strumming style, vibrato, pick angle, finger strikes and mutes, and, phrasing, voicing etc etc ALL go into the equation of tone.

It's a metal YT channel -he probably doesn't know or care about the nuance of playing with regards to tone because he doesn't need to

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Merriam-Webster defines “timbre” as follows:

“Definition of timbre: the quality given to a sound by its overtones: such as
a: the resonance by which the ear recognizes and identifies a voiced speech sound
b: the quality of tone distinctive of a particular singing voice or musical instrument”

So definition b) says that timbre is the quality of tone of an instrument.


However also:

“Definition of tone

(Entry 1 of 3)

1: vocal or musical sound of a specific quality

• spoke in low tones
• masculine tones

especially: musical sound with respect to timbre and manner of expression”

So I will concede that expression and dynamics are part of tone.

It does bug me that people say tone is in the fingers when guitar can be played without using fingers, but can still be heard.
YouTube has videos of people with no hands playing guitar, their instruments still have tone. Also, the robot guitarist from Compressorhead (pictured).

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

In guitar context tone is generated by the equipment used. So tone is in the amps, pickups, guitars and so on, but never in the fingers.

The 'tone is in the fingers' definition is dumb. By that definition, any player will sound the same playing through a mega metal 5150 style rig with humbuckers or through a Strat with single speaker Fender Bassman, which he/ she won't.

 

[GuitarStv]

In guitar context tone is generated by the equipment used. So tone is in the amps, pickups, guitars and so on, but never in the fingers.

Pick up your guitar right now. Drag your pick across all six strings just above where the strings touch the bridge. Now pluck all six strings just over the 12th fret. Pretty massive difference in how it sounds, right? Way more overtones and brighter overall sound picking near the bridge. Much deeper, bell-like and more fundamental tone when picking at the 12th fret.

The equipment used (guitar and amp) are identical. The strings being played are identical. The notes played are identical. But they sound very different. What you're hearing is a very simple example of how playing technique imparts a different tone. "Tone is in the fingers" is a shorthand for saying that the technique of playing causes significant and audible variations - and you've just proven that this exists.

There are plenty of other instances where this is true. Someone who uses only a pick will get a very different tone than someone who plays fingerstyle. There are plenty of different kinds of vibrato. The tightness/looseness of how you hold your pick and wrist will impact the volume and tone that you get while strumming your guitar. The way that you mute strings with your left and right hands.

It does bug me that people say tone is in the fingers when guitar can be played without using fingers, but can still be heard.
YouTube has videos of people with no hands playing guitar, their instruments still have tone. Also, the robot guitarist from Compressorhead (pictured).

"Tone is in the fingers" doesn't mean that your fingers are screaming the notes out to the crowd! If you believe that, you'll probably be disappointed. It refers to how touch and technique will make an instrument sound very different from player to player.

 

[Clint 55]

Tone is in the fingers is still a false statement. Playing will be the deciding factor in the resultant tone only if the equipment is the same or similar. Once the equipment is changed, that will have more of a factor in the tone. It's just a stupid saying for people to tout everywhere without qualifying rationally.

 

[devastone]

That guys obsession and boner for mediocre *ss Reaper is hilarious though -this was the first vid of his I've seen where he didn't mention it -thank god.

I'm playing with Reaper some right now, trying to pick software to do some recording again, been years. What would you recommend? I was looking at Reaper for the price, don't want to make a big investment, Harrison Mixbus is on sale for $99 right now, I like the analog style interface, but it seems to be on the fringe so not a ton of info about it. I don't want to do a PT subscription, Ableton seems to be more geared toward performance than recording. I have PT First, Reaper, Ableton Lite, Mixbus demo (that I'm having some issues getting going, so questioning it), Tracktion Waveform (I used Tracktion years ago), and a few others. In the end, it's digital audio, it's going to depend on what you use to get it into the computer more than the software used (although Mixbus does claim an analog sound, which has to be a manipulation of the digital data, a built in effect if you will).

And while we're at it, GGD or EZdrummer?

Sorry for the OT, just some questions NE's post raised.

 

[NegativeEase]

I'm playing with Reaper some right now, trying to pick software to do some recording again, been years. What would you recommend? I was looking at Reaper for the price, don't want to make a big investment, Harrison Mixbus is on sale for $99 right now, I like the analog style interface, but it seems to be on the fringe so not a ton of info about it. I don't want to do a PT subscription, Ableton seems to be more geared toward performance than recording. I have PT First, Reaper, Ableton Lite, Mixbus demo (that I'm having some issues getting going, so questioning it), Tracktion Waveform (I used Tracktion years ago), and a few others. In the end, it's digital audio, it's going to depend on what you use to get it into the computer more than the software used (although Mixbus does claim an analog sound, which has to be a manipulation of the digital data, a built in effect if you will).

And while we're at it, GGD or EZdrummer?

Sorry for the OT, just some questions NE's post raised.

Well, let me be clear, Reaper is fine and a very good and cost effective DAW -but he makes it sound like it's better than PT, Logic, and Cubase in his videos... it's not -he just hates the price and wants to always be appearing outside the box for his base. He has to have an angle just like anyone monetizing You Tube content.

If you you just need a good DAW, aren't planning on working with files that you record and later bring into a professional studio session and be familiar with what you are seeing in that studio while working (which to me is a HUGE reason for PT if you track and home and mix in a pro studio), are not worried about collaborative and cloud workflows then Reeper is a good choice, I haven't used Harrison's but that make amazing software and consoles for the most high end post suites -so I imagine it's good, Have you messed with UA Luna yet? UA has there finger on the pulse -download that demo version.

"Mediocre" was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

"Tone is in the fingers" doesn't mean that your fingers are screaming the notes out to the crowd! If you believe that, you'll probably be disappointed. It refers to how touch and technique will make an instrument sound very different from player to player.

Technique can be taught though. My fingers are the same now as when I started playing, but I know how to do different things.

If I had brief clips of a few different hair metal guitarists playing JB-loaded super Strats through hot-rodded Marshalls, could you tell which guitarist was which? Probably not, but you’d know it was a JB through a Marshall each time. Ditto with nu-metal players with PRS or Ibanez guitars through Mesa Recto amps, or metalcore guys playing EMG-equipped guitars through TS-boosted Peavy 5150s/ 6505s. Different guys playing similar equipment will sound similar.