Tone pot values

Gtrjunior

Gtrjunior

Well-known member
So we all know that a 500k volume pot is a bit brighter than a 250k volume pot.
What effect, if any does changing the tone pot values have? Will it brighten/darken the tone in a similar way that the volume control does?


In my LP I have 250k pots all around. It used to have 500k but I found it a little bright. Through experimentation I eventually settled on 250k.
I didn’t however experiment with the tone pots.
The guitar originally had the pcb board....I stripped it and went 500k volume and 250k tone.
I then went with 300k volume and 250k tone...then 250k.

I recently had to change both volume knobs. One was scratchy, and the other was cutting in and out and had a loose lug.
While I was at it, I changed the orange drop caps and put a set of Sozo mustard caps.
It got me thinking about what would happen with a higher value tone knob....
Thoughts?
 
Re: Tone pot values

Volume uses resistance to darken the sound by lowering the whole resonant peak. Tone uses capacitance which cuts highs above a certain point determined by the cap.

Using a higher value tone gives you more play before the cap starts taking effect. 500k is almost the same as no load however it does theoretically still darken even on 10. 250k is already cutting highs noticably on 10.
 
Last edited:
Re: Tone pot values

Clint 55 said:
Volume uses resistance to darken the sound by lowering the whole resonant peak. Tone uses capacitance which cuts highs above a certain point determined by the cap.

Using a higher value tone gives you more play before the cap starts taking effect. 500k is almost the same as no load however it does theoretically still darken even on 10. 250k is already cutting highs noticably on 10.
Click to expand...

So if I’m understanding correctly, a 500k tone pot will brighten the tone. The 250k currently in the guitar is cutting some high end even when on 10.
I’m thinking I might want to change just the neck pickup tone to 500k just to brighten it up a little....sound like that would work?
 
Re: Tone pot values

Yas. Or you can convert your 250k tone into a no load tone pot. The benefit to this is that you have full brightness with no effect from the tone pot on 10 and then the tone starts taking effect as soon as you turn it to 9. Or you can just use a 500k tone. The benefit to that is that although it takes some turning down to really notice a difference, it does color differently with the cap only slightly cutting in say from 7-10.
 
Re: Tone pot values

Going from a 250k to a 500k will let more top end through, but to say a 500k brightens the tone is false. As was previously stated, any tone control will bleed off some highs.

Also, whether 250k sounds like half of a 500 depends on whether you're using a linear or audio taper pot.
 
Re: Tone pot values

JB_From_Hell said:
Going from a 250k to a 500k will let more top end through, but to say a 500k brightens the tone is false. As was previously stated, any tone control will bleed off some highs.

Also, whether 250k sounds like half of a 500 depends on whether you're using a linear or audio taper pot.
Click to expand...

My volumes are audio taper, tone is linear.
 
Re: Tone pot values

Typical passive guitar tone pots work by leaking high end to ground (i.e. the garbage can – that which does not get heard), in a controlled manner. The capacitor determines which frequencies get dumped, and the resistance of the pot is what keeps the chute to the trash can (i.e. ground) from sucking all the high end down. But a 250K pot is not a perfect seal. It allows some leakage of high end, even at full resistance ("10"). A 500K is a better "seal," and allows less. A 1M, and you've got a pretty darned good seal that gets you pretty darned close to having no audible leakage...which is why Jazzmasters and Jaguars have tons of aggressive (some might say overly aggressive) high end on tap that Strats and Teles do not.

So, choose your tone pot value based on the amount of built-in leakage that you want. Personally, I usually like a higher value pot than stock, and dialing the knob down if the treble is excessive, rather than always having the slight dial down built in to the pot, like with a 250K. That said, 1M can be excessive sometimes. If I'm wiring a Strat or Tele from scratch, I'll normally use 500K pots at first, then adjust from there if it doesn't sound right to me.
 
Re: Tone pot values

ItsaBass said:
Typical passive guitar tone pots work by leaking high end to ground (i.e. the garbage can – that which does not get heard), in a controlled manner. The capacitor determines which frequencies get dumped, and the resistance of the pot is what keeps the chute to the trash can (i.e. ground) from sucking all the high end down. But a 250K pot is not a perfect seal. It allows some leakage of high end, even at full resistance ("10"). A 500K is a better "seal," and allows less. A 1M, and you've got a pretty darned good seal that gets you pretty darned close to having no audible leakage...which is why Jazzmasters and Jaguars have tons of aggressive (some might say overly aggressive) high end on tap that Strats and Teles do not.

So, choose your tone pot value based on the amount of built-in leakage that you want. Personally, I usually like a higher value pot than stock, and dialing the knob down if the treble is excessive, rather than always having the slight dial down built in to the pot, like with a 250K. That said, 1M can be excessive sometimes. If I'm wiring a Strat or Tele from scratch, I'll normally use 500K pots at first, then adjust from there if it doesn't sound right to me.
Click to expand...

Good analogy...thank you.
 
Re: Tone pot values

ItsaBass said:
Typical passive guitar tone pots work by leaking high end to ground (i.e. the garbage can – that which does not get heard), in a controlled manner. The capacitor determines which frequencies get dumped, and the resistance of the pot is what keeps the chute to the trash can (i.e. ground) from sucking all the high end down. But a 250K pot is not a perfect seal. It allows some leakage of high end, even at full resistance ("10"). A 500K is a better "seal," and allows less. A 1M, and you've got a pretty darned good seal that gets you pretty darned close to having no audible leakage...which is why Jazzmasters and Jaguars have tons of aggressive (some might say overly aggressive) high end on tap that Strats and Teles do not.

So, choose your tone pot value based on the amount of built-in leakage that you want. Personally, I usually like a higher value pot than stock, and dialing the knob down if the treble is excessive, rather than always having the slight dial down built in to the pot, like with a 250K. That said, 1M can be excessive sometimes. If I'm wiring a Strat or Tele from scratch, I'll normally use 500K pots at first, then adjust from there if it doesn't sound right to me.
Click to expand...

Good post.

Good logic explained very clearly.
 
Re: Tone pot values

RE: the loose lug.

This can happen if using heat for too long when soldering to the pot.

I just did it the other day but I got lucky because I ordered a stacked pot and just moved everything over to the "extra pot" being more careful with soldering technique.
 
Re: Tone pot values

Hey GTR Junior, ignore this if it doesnt apply -do you ride the tone knobs pretty regularly? reason I ask (here come the trolls) -I almost never move the wiper on the tone knob, instead using pickup selection changes live, engage pedal with tonal needs for passages, and amp EQ for the room I'm playing to mitigate the need for lots of Pot interaction (ha!). So unless your interacting with the Tone pot much more than a touch a 250k or 500k isn't going to matter much -like in my case.

Second, there is lots of tonal/scientific advantage to not inhibiting the full sound of your pickup until after your first buffer circuit -then making tone adjustments -but I know reality says most people want to use their tone knob live to backoff and sit in the mix or pull some bite back in where needed. I personally don't prefer this other than 1 or 2 o'clock adjusts -although my method is less convenient ands requires more forethought and planning which can be annoying.

Also, you can always add a resistor to change the range or value to something between besides 0-250k or 0-500k -or realistically you are really starting at about 10k -250k etc (there is no 0k with a pot in line)

Just a different way of doing things... I like all of my guitar output to make it to where I effect it after buffer
 
Re: Tone pot values

NegativeEase said:
Hey GTR Junior, ignore this if it doesnt apply -do you ride the tone knobs pretty regularly? reason I ask (here come the trolls) -I almost never move the wiper on the tone knob, instead using pickup selection changes live, engage pedal with tonal needs for passages, and amp EQ for the room I'm playing to mitigate the need for lots of Pot interaction (ha!). So unless your interacting with the Tone pot much more than a touch a 250k or 500k isn't going to matter much -like in my case.

Second, there is lots of tonal/scientific advantage to not inhibiting the full sound of your pickup until after your first buffer circuit -then making tone adjustments -but I know reality says most people want to use their tone knob live to backoff and sit in the mix or pull some bite back in where needed. I personally don't prefer this other than 1 or 2 o'clock adjusts -although my method is less convenient ands requires more forethought and planning which can be annoying.

Also, you can always add a resistor to change the range or value to something between besides 0-250k or 0-500k -or realistically you are really starting at about 10k -250k etc (there is no 0k with a pot in line)

Just a different way of doing things... I like all of my guitar output to make it to where I effect it after buffer
Click to expand...

I mostly use my tone pot the same as you.
I typically get my tone with the guitar controls wide open. And IF I need to make an adjustment it typically is on the clean channel to tame some brightness.
And if I’m being honest, I like the tone I’m getting with everything as is. But you know...always trying to tweak it!!!
 
Re: Tone pot values

I have replaced tone controls of my guitars with individual volumes, single/parallel/series/phase switching and RC tone circuit to balance them.
 
Re: Tone pot values

I've been putting in a tone bypass switch in all my builds. That way I can basically keep my tone adjustments at the guitar but have the option to quickly and conveniently flick a switch to get full-on treble or flick it again to access my preset tone (I keep my amp settings pretty bright to aid in over-all clarity and to have plenty of treble available when I need it). Obviously, this preset value can be tweaked very easily (at the guitar tone pot) depending on room conditions, blend needs for the rest of the band, individual song requirements, etc. It has proven to be very convenient and effective.
 
Re: Tone pot values

GuitarDoc said:
I've been putting in a tone bypass switch in all my builds. That way I can basically keep my tone adjustments at the guitar but have the option to quickly and conveniently flick a switch to get full-on treble or flick it again to access my preset tone (I keep my amp settings pretty bright to aid in over-all clarity and to have plenty of treble available when I need it). Obviously, this preset value can be tweaked very easily (at the guitar tone pot) depending on room conditions, blend needs for the rest of the band, individual song requirements, etc. It has proven to be very convenient and effective.
Click to expand...

That’s actually a pretty ingenious idea...
 
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