Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

  • JCM 800 2203 ???

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • 1959 Super Lead "Stock" ???

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • 1959 Super Lead "Hot-Hodded" (4th Gain Stage) ???

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Others ???

    Votes: 1 5.0%

  • Total voters
    20
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

the guy who invented fire said:
I'll give you this John...the AB testing I did was not as tight as it could have been, and the differerce I heard might have simply been different components...

And to be 100% honest my biggest beef with PCB amps is that they are a pain to work on, and I have seen one too many broken PCB's.

...If you take a Marshall pcb vs the ptp amp with the same transformers and same components...If you turn around and do a blindfold test,you will not know the difference...Trace set up his recording studio and literally recorded through the same mic etc..with the 2 types of amps...It was Trace initially that made me a believer and that was the best way to hear anything....I think there's more "placebo" effect going on more than anything else...

And....I hate working on the PCB models...LOL :laugh2:
 
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Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Lewguitar said:
I agree with what most everyone ha said. I've owned both models and my '70 50 watt small box Marshall (model 1987) just sounds more natural. I loved the '82 JCM 800 50 watt I owned, but I sold it when I got the model 1987 head. Lew

The 800 has no clean tone really to speak of and is brighter and has more gain,plus at lower volumes the 800 is thin,buzzy,and anemic sounding due to it's differences in the preamp...The 1959/1987 amps are almost Fender clean without reverb and at the same time is warmer and rounder than the 800...The 800 grinds,but the non-master volume amps "honk" and have a better and more usable clean tone...The non-master volume amp also has that great ballsy overdriven tone though when you crank er up all the way...The 800 tones of the 80s don't sound like the earlier Marshall tones of the late 60s and 70s...To me anyway?
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Thank You All Guys !!!

I'm finally leading towards the Voodoo V-Plex... Does anyone here at the forum own's one of them ???... Hey dudes... just one more question OK ?! ...

All the people here seems to like the V-Plex, in fact i like it too... but im a bit scared cuz its a copy ... and not the original... Thats silly i know ... it's more psycologic than anything .... But ...

Tell me, whats the % of this V-Plex being a real perfect copy, as if it was made by Marshall on the 60'... ???

Thanks...
not.quite.slash
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

not.quite.slash said:
Thank You All Guys !!!

I'm finally leading towards the Voodoo V-Plex... Does anyone here at the forum own's one of them ???... Hey dudes... just one more question OK ?! ...

All the people here seems to like the V-Plex, in fact i like it too... but im a bit scared cuz its a copy ... and not the original... Thats silly i know ... it's more psycologic than anything .... But ...

Tell me, whats the % of this V-Plex being a real perfect copy, as if it was made by Marshall on the 60'... ???

Thanks...
not.quite.slash

That amp was designed by Trace Allen....Trace knows more than anyone I know out there today about the Marshall amp...Trace has taken his knowledge and know how from not only playing Marshalls.but years of modding them and being a pro musician and a recording engineer...Trace uses the best he can get in transformers and internal components...The guy is super people and will stand behind his products 110%....I wouldn't plug for Trace and I don't gain anything by telling you this,but I do because I Like Trace too much! Trace knows the "Plexi" circuit too well and I know you'll be making a great purchase in his amp :dance:

If I didn't already own one of Trace's old Marshall heads and I wanted that circuit,guess where I'd be buying my amp from....LOL... :)
 
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Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

OK ...
Thanks you all! stratodeluxe; the guy who invented fire; jeff; steveo ; and everyone that my junky piece of **** ... AKA: Brain ... forgot to put here !!!

Im buying the V-Plex... but there's a little problem... I live in Brazil, and i don't think that Trace will be able to ship the amp here ... and maybe not even accept the order ...

Altough with some work, i can manage to buy the amp asking my father to use 1 of his accounts in the USA ... but theres a whole new problem !!!

Thx Guys !!! Next Time i Call You !!! Specialy when i find myself ****ed up ... chossing gear !!!
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Yeah, tell me about them plexi cleans. INCREDIBLE!! Like a chimier, more open sounding fender tone. Listen to any hendrix clean song and you'll hear it. Amazing cleans. If the plexi wasnt so pricey for just the head, i'd buy it right away. Pretty much an EL34 Twin with a much more agressive tone stack. Probably maintains its composure clean-wise at more than giggable volumes.
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Quencho092 said:
Yeah, tell me about them plexi cleans. INCREDIBLE!! Like a chimier, more open sounding fender tone. Listen to any hendrix clean song and you'll hear it. Amazing cleans. If the plexi wasnt so pricey for just the head, i'd buy it right away. Pretty much an EL34 Twin with a much more agressive tone stack. Probably maintains its composure clean-wise at more than giggable volumes.

I think Hendrix also used Fender Twins in the studio?
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

the guy who invented fire said:
I didn't know that.

I'm not 100% positive on this,but either I read this or someone else told me..It's not the gospel but Hendrix did start out using the fender heads and cabs,so it wouldn't surprise me? I do have pictures of Hendrix playing through BF heads into tall Fender cabs....This was pre-Marshall days...

Ritchie Blackmore played through the same setup and was using 335s on some old Deep Purple videos I have with the first band and doing "Hush"....Once everyone got bit by the "Jimi" bug,it was all strats through Marshalls...Except for Clapton with Cream...Jeff Beck and Blackmore did switch from Gibsons to strats though...

JIMI.jpg
 
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Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

wow that's awesome! Were they bandmasters, bassmans, or showmen? kick ass dude!

I know that he used d120f 12 inch JBL's in his marshall stacks even. I guess he got hooked on the tone from his fender head days.

Awesome, fender twin in the studio? I really really really love his clean tone so my surfer strat>future twin RI will get me into that ballpark. Thanks!
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Quencho092 said:
wow that's awesome! Were they bandmasters, bassmans, or showmen? kick ass dude!

I know that he used d120f 12 inch JBL's in his marshall stacks even. I guess he got hooked on the tone from his fender head days.

Awesome, fender twin in the studio? I really really really love his clean tone so my surfer strat>future twin RI will get me into that ballpark. Thanks!

Hendrix wanted to speak in "volumes" get it? LOL....I'd say they were Showman heads.. :smack: :laugh2:
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

STRATDELUXER97 said:
Hendrix wanted to speak in "volumes" get it? LOL....I'd say they were Showman heads.. :smack: :laugh2:


Yeah, I have several pics of Jimi with BF Showmans w/ matching (2x15) cabs, as well as several Sunn heads and cabs...the same Sunn's later ended up belonging to the guys in Mountain!
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Hopefully this will help to answer some questions and it's also an attempt to address many posts. For what it's worth...

PCB verses HAND WIRED

I'm not going to overly technical or type a novel (not enough time for that--ha, ha). We've done extensive and exhaustive comparisons/A-B'ing. If you use a well designed, good quality PCB along with good quality wire and components you will not hear a difference *but* most PCB equipped amps (like the reissues) use caps that are lesser quality caps, wire, trace materials, etc., etc and that is where the sonic differences come into play and you will hear it not the actual PCB itself.

If there is not much difference why do you hand-wire your V-Plex amps?

When people think of older Plexi's they know they are hand wired so we're hand wiring them so they are as close circuitry wise to the early 1968 plexi that we cloned.

Regarding older Plexi amps being inconsistant (as the-guy-who-invented-fire suggested)

Never was there a more true statement regarding old Plexi's (ha, ha). We work on a lot of old plexis all the time and we've seen far more variances than what is listed on any given website on the net (voltages, transformers chokes, components, values and the list goes on) so I whole heartedly agree with the-guy-who-invented-fire. You are rolling the dice when purchasing an older Plexi off from the net, etc.

They hold their value well, there's no doubt about that but if you are purchasing one for tone then I would recommend playing on them first. If you like it and have the money then I say go for it. A lot of people want a great sounding plexi but do not want to spend thousands and risk getting one that does not sound good, that's the main reason why we introduced the V-Plex.

Will the reissue transformers work?
Yes, naturally they work fine and you can gig with them for years. Some people love them and some people do not so it's really personal preference more than anything else.

Do the new reissue transformers sound or feel the same as the older transformers?
No they do not. For a long time we had two reissue heads in the shop that people could play on or test drive. One was all stock and the other had a cloned transformer set that we had Mercury clone for us (they were from an early 1968 plexi that we also use in our V-Plex amps). We never told them what the differences were, etc. but every time someone plugged in and A/B'ed the amps the comments were always the say. "Are these the same amps? They do not or sound the same..."

Will you install a Post Phase Inverter Master Volume?

Yes we will and we do it on about 1/2 the V-Plex amps we ship out. It's an additional $69.95. It's 100% transparent and when it's on 10 it's completely out of the circuit. You can get the break up/distortion at any volume level (even bedroom volumes).

Tell me, whats the % of this V-Plex being a real perfect copy, as if it was made by Marshall on the 60'... ???

For what it's worth: We literally cloned this from a very early 1968 Plexi (it may have been a very late 67 but from everything we checked it appeared to be an early 1968). It was literally the best sounding older Plexi we've ever worked on. We traced out the circuitry, took voltage readings, removed the transformer set, sent the transformers to Mercury and had them clone it to the "T". We're not cloning the exact look, exact layout, etc. but all the V-Plex amps sound like the early 68 we cloned it from.

Im buying the V-Plex... but there's a little problem... I live in Brazil, and i don't think that Trace will be able to ship the amp here ... and maybe not even accept the order ...

We ship globally every week so it's not a problem at all. You can pay with an international money order or Visa, MasterCard and Discover (both debit and credit) :)


Have a great day guys!
Trace
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

We ship globally every week so it's not a problem at all. You can pay with an international money order or Visa, MasterCard and Discover (both debit and credit) :)


Have a great day guys!
Trace[/QUOTE]

Geesh....No hello friend,how's it hangin,how's the ole lady? Just all business? :smack: Last plug for Trace and "Poopoo Amps" :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Geesh....No hello friend,

I went to email you and ten received about 5 phone calls, the email was auto saved in my drafts folder (hate when that happens--ha, ha). I just fired you a quick PM as well. It's great to see you here my friend and *thank you* so very much for the overly kind words, its greatly appreciated John.

how's it hangin,how's the ole lady?

She's doing great, she puts up with me working 67 hours a week (not counting trade shows, etc.) but everything is great. The kids are growing up entirely too fast (both are not driving and I'm about to have a heart attack--ha, ha).

Just all business?

Mostly but it's par for the course. We are fortunate that we really love what we do and we never take it for granted so it's a good thing.

smack: Last plug for Trace and "Poopoo Amps" :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Thanks for the plug (I think--ha, ha)
Trace :)
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

VoodooAmplification said:
Geesh....No hello friend,

I went to email you and ten received about 5 phone calls, the email was auto saved in my drafts folder (hate when that happens--ha, ha). I just fired you a quick PM as well. It's great to see you here my friend and *thank you* so very much for the overly kind words, its greatly appreciated John.

how's it hangin,how's the ole lady?

She's doing great, she puts up with me working 67 hours a week (not counting trade shows, etc.) but everything is great. The kids are growing up entirely too fast (both are not driving and I'm about to have a heart attack--ha, ha).

Just all business?

Mostly but it's par for the course. We are fortunate that we really love what we do and we never take it for granted so it's a good thing.

smack: Last plug for Trace and "Poopoo Amps" :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Thanks for the plug (I think--ha, ha)
Trace :)

I still loves ya Trace....How can a guy not? :burnout: Glad you and your's and business,is doing well....You sure have worked hard at it buddy!
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I still loves ya Trace....How can a guy not?

I think that's a loaded question so I shall politely pass on that reply (just kidding of course--ha, ha)

Glad you and your's and business,is doing well....You sure have worked hard at it buddy!

Many thanks John, you are far too kind. I myself log about 65-67 hours a week so while it makes for long days I really do enjoy it and still have the same passion as when I first got into this so I am very fortunate in that sense. We now have 4 full time techs (aside from myself) and two interns on staff right now so it makes for a lot of fun and hard work. I wouldn't have it any other way.


Be good John and give me a call when ever you can
Trace
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

the guy who invented fire said:
Yeah, I have several pics of Jimi with BF Showmans w/ matching (2x15) cabs, as well as several Sunn heads and cabs...the same Sunn's later ended up belonging to the guys in Mountain!
A HA ! My brother-in-law has a Sunn 2 x15 cab in his livingroom w/t 2
JBL D-130's in it. He Claims it belonged to Leslie West. ( No reason to
discredit this claim) I often wonder if JIMI had played thru it? :32:
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

I konw this is like swearing in church, but I prefer the JCM 800 to the Plexi's.

That said, I'd prefer to have my local "guru" wave his magic wand over it, though!
 
Re: Tone Quest: 1959 vs. JCM800 ??? (Moded ???) HELP!!!

Stringmachine said:
I konw this is like swearing in church, but I prefer the JCM 800 to the Plexi's.

That said, I'd prefer to have my local "guru" wave his magic wand over it, though!

To each his own brother....That's what keeps us all very different from each other... :) Both are great amps and right up there with Marshall's very best! :dance:
 
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