Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

First off, I didn't see the OP tell us the DCR of the pickup. The OP mentioned seeing an online reading of a '57 Classic that was just under 8K.

Secondly, there has been a ****-ton of variation from Gibson on their pickups, with winds all over the place. My Classic was about 8K (I used it in the neck spot), and my Classic Plus was about 8.5K. (These were c. 2003 model pickups that did not originally come in a guitar. I purchased them new from a dealer.)

To the OP, the 498's high DCR reading is not odd at all. Those pickups are wound pretty heavily (i.e. with a lot of turns of wire on the coils), while your standard old-school humbucker has a lot fewer turns.

Yes, you are correct on all counts.

I'm another one who doesn't like the 490R/498T combination for exactly the reasons the OP described. Blueman has suggested to me that I exchange the magnets--490's A2 for the 498's A5 and vice-versa--in an effort to get them more balanced. I haven't tried it, but it seems reasonable. And the OP 14K reading for the 498T is about what mine are.

Another thought just occurred to me...could the low output of the Classic+ be because it is inadvertently wired up as a single coil? That could explain the volume difference.

My thought was that his Classic+ is performing more like a regular Classic than a Plus. I just thought that using the Classic in the neck and the 490R in the bridge might windup as a more balanced set.

What ever the cause, it definitely seems to me that something is wrong with his pickup.

Bill

 

[blueman335]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

I'm another one who doesn't like the 490R/498T combination for exactly the reasons the OP described. Blueman has suggested to me that I exchange the magnets--490's A2 for the 498's A5 and vice-versa--in an effort to get them more balanced.

498T/490R: talk about the Odd Couple. I've tried some magnet combinations in this set, and have settled on an A5 in the neck (which opens up the high end and adds clarity) and in the bridge either an UOA5 (for texture and a more vintage sound) or an A8 (for warmth, mids, and output). With these magnet changes, it's a good, well-matched set.

 

[Il_Bès]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

Wow, thank you all for the feedback
I apologize for any misunderstanding that I might have caused, I'm not that much used to write down things in English (nor am I in my own language, for that matter...), and of course trying to convey one's subjective perceivement of tone can on its own generate misunderstandings.
As far as I know, the pickup my buddy gave me is a stock '57 Classic Plus. Anyway, Boogie Bill's suggestion of it being cabled as a single coil would explain both the lowish output and the treblish tone: is there some way to check that out? I mean, I'm quite sure there must be plenty, so I would greatly appreciate if someone could direct me to some tutorial/video/howto/whatever on that subject.
On the other hand, my personal experience with the magnet swap of the 490R/498T set did add clarity to the 490R but didn't improve much the usability of the pickups with the same EQ; this could possibly be due to the odd (Les Paul-wise) woods.
While I was at it, I kinda measured the DC resistance of both the 490R (7.74 KOhm) and the '57C+ (9.01 KOhm). Once again, I did not bother to desolder and take them off, but I did measure with both pots fully close and fully open (readings did not change).
Last but not least, blueman's suggestion of a magnet upgrade with an Alnico8 in the 498T makes good sense to me and could possibly be my first move... time to contact LtKojak
I'll post an update of any future test.

Andrea

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

Here is a way to check: Switch to the bridge pickup. Plug the guitar in and turn the amp on. Put your guitar's volume control all the way up. Take something metal, like a dental tool, coin, small file, etc. tap the pickup's cover over each coil. You should hear tapping over both coils, with each side being of approximately equal volume. If one side is much quieter than the other, you likely have a dead coil.

 

[Il_Bès]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

Here is a way to check: Switch to the bridge pickup. Plug the guitar in and turn the amp on. Put your guitar's volume control all the way up. Take something metal, like a dental tool, coin, small file, etc. tap the pickup's cover over each coil. You should hear tapping over both coils, with each side being of approximately equal volume. If one side is much quieter than the other, you likely have a dead coil.

Just did that, both slug and screw have approx. the same volume. Guess this is consistent with the DC resistence reading, tho.
Besides, seeing as the 498 has a much greater DC resistence and is still well matched volume-wise with the 490, wouldn't the combination of lower DC resistance+weaker magnet in the '57C+ explain the volume mismatch I'm experiencing?

Andrea

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

Volume mismatch is completely normal; it's basic science. Your 498T just compensated for it by being such a high output pickup. Read what I said earlier about judging in the mix.

 

[Il_Bès]

Re: Tone quest - neck pickup to match a '57 Classic+?

Volume mismatch is completely normal; it's basic science. Your 498T just compensated for it by being such a high output pickup. Read what I said earlier about judging in the mix.

Read that, and while there's still something that eludes me I get your point. Anyway, the 490 has always cut through way better than every bridge pickup/magnet combo I've tried it with, even more so in its current AlnicoII, unpotted configuration. It might just be me (i.e the way I hit the strings - I seldom use picks) or the fact that I play the LP through the same amp (and with the same setting) I use with my other guitar (Gibson S-1, alder body, maple neck w/rosewood fretboard, three single coils with 'weird' wiring), fact is that I've almost always used the neck pickup to play leads. In this perspective, I am also tempted by Boogie Bill's suggestion of a pickup, rather than magnet, swap.

Andrea