Tone Wizard vs. You

The Tone Ranger

The Tone Ranger

New member
I have a 2008 Ibanez RG 2550z Prestige - basswood body, maple/rosewood neck, edge zero bridge (trem), and H-S-H w/5-way switch. My main gig is playing for my church, but I'm into hard rock n metal - VH, Skid Row, Ratt, Metallica, Anthrax, Creed, AIC. I love blues too like Hendrix and SRV. I don't like Dimarzios btw. I love the tone of Duncans...always have. And I LOVE harmonics a la Zakk W.

So I asked the Tone Wizard on the SD site and it said TB-6 Distortion bridge and SH-1 '59 for the neck (I'm not replacing the middle single). However, when I said I liked rock, it told me to go with JB/Jazz combo. So...

What do YOU say? I obviously need versatility, but don't want to be disappointed when I'm playing at home. I've always loved both pups (JB/Distortion). Would I need to change my tone pot with the JB vs. the Dist? I'd rather not ($$). I read where the highs may be a bit much with the JB in that guitar and use a 250K pot to tame them. Some have said to go with an A2 JB. I've never seen one of those. Would that be similar to the EVH Custom Shop or the Custom Custom? If so, I know of a EVH custom shop pup from another company called GuitarForce...called the Erupter, but it would only be 9K and not trem spaced (vs. 16K for JB and Dist)

Help!!! And sorry for the long post.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Q1 - Is your Ibanez is wired to automatically coil tap the humbuckers in switch positions 2 and 4. In this event, the tapped '59n could prove too weedy.

Q2 - What sort of amplifier and/or overdrive pedals do you use?

I have never found the SH/TB-4 JB over-trebley through a 500k volume pot but, then, I am a middle-aged guy, running valve amplification with the midrange dialled up rather than scooped out.

Have you considered DiMarzio? For what you say you want, the Evo II might strike the right balance between Hard Rock and Bluesy. The other DiMarzio pickup that I would like to suggest is the Al DiMeola signature model. Unfortunately, this is long since discontinued.
 
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The custom set I have in now from Guitarforce are 4-conductor. I have an A2 PAF in the neck and an A5 bridge that's around 16K. The neck pup sounds like the tone knob is all the way down even when it's at 10. The bridge pup is good, but just isn't doing it for me. I thought it would be just like a JB, but it's not. It lacks some upper mids and harmonics. So I'm considering a switch to Duncans since I've always loved their tone and know what to expect.

I play through a Line 6 POD XT Live straight into board at church and a little Fender Bullet reverb ss amp at home. I have a MAC and really want to get into Garage Band, but haven't done so yet. I need to practice up first!

Honestly, I don't really use the 2, 3 or 4 positions. I'm either on the neck for clean and bluesy stuff and then on the bridge for the dirty stuff. I've considered doing away with the middle pup all together, changing the pickguard and getting a 3-way switch, but feel I'd be losing versatility...and too much hassle and expense. I kinda wanna keep the guitar the way it was designed, but just upgrade the neck and bridge pups.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Oh yeah...the only Dimarzios I've considered are the PAF Joe/MoJoe because they have great harmonics and were designed for basswood...or the PAF Joe/Steve's Special. The SS scoops the mids. It sounds pretty cool, but I think I would get tired of it. Overall I just prefer the tone of Duncans to Dimarzios. I think Vai's tone is one of the worst. I really can't stand the Evos. Thanks though.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Welcome Tone Ranger! I'll say this as I have before:

The Tone Wizard is to the Pickup Lounge as David Copperfield is to say Gandalf.

I would honestly go for something low output and medium/balanced EQ. You can get all the fuzz you need from the POD. That type of pup will sound best processed anyway.

Can't speak to the particular guitar or the funky Ibby wiring. There may be a better specific pup.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

The Tone Wizard will show you how the pickups compare to each other. It will NOT show you how a pickup will sound in your guitar, played through your amp, played by YOU.

If Eddie Van Halen picked up your guitar, plugged into your amp and wailed for a few minutes you'd think you were hearing a different pickup, different guitar and different amp than what you own.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Thanks for the welcome AceMan! I love that picture BTW. I first got into guitar playing because of Kiss and EVH. Then I heard Judas Priest's Screaming For Vengeance album and it was on!!! I've been a Priest fan ever since...which is hard for a Christian!

I've considered going low output, but really fear it's not going to give me that edgy/umphy tone I'm looking for or the crazy harmonics that I crave. I'm considering having Guitarforce re-wire my neck pup and switching the bridge pup to an Erupter (EVH pup clone from the early days...A2 mag, 9K ouput, non-trem spaced)...since I've alreay paid for them (he said he would rewire, switch for free or just refund me).

So I'm just scared that I'll be able to play at church, but then come home and not be able to get the 80's and modern rock n metal tones with the sick harmonics that I'm after. I mean, church knows I'm the "metal guy" so I'm not concerned with being a little "over the top" tonewise. Plus, I like being able to switch to the bridge pup and not necessarily switch the setting on the POD - kinda like stepping on a dist pedal just by switching to bridge pup. The sound guy also seems to always turn the guitar down in the mix...so I like having some high output pups to defend against that. I've even considered going active (blackouts), but too much hassle and expense.

Still, I hear what you're saying and value your opinion. I'm indecisive (and it shows). Thanks for reading and for all the suggestions. What else should I consider for my setup and what I'm looking for?
 
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The Tone Ranger said:
I have a MAC and really want to get into Garage Band, but haven't done so yet. I need to practice up first!
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Never mind practicing, get stuck into that GB software now. It takes a while to learn properly. Your can find your way around the recording environment whilst working at your guitar playing. Once you are getting the hang of GB, I recommend that you upgrade to Logic Studio. If you like Line6, you'll like Logic's new amp simulations.

The Tone Ranger said:
Honestly, I don't really use the 2, 3 or 4 positions. I'm either on the neck for clean and bluesy stuff and then on the bridge for the dirty stuff. I've considered doing away with the middle pup all together, changing the pickguard and getting a 3-way switch, but feel I'd be losing versatility...and too much hassle and expense. I kinda wanna keep the guitar the way it was designed, but just upgrade the neck and bridge pups.
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I asked about the selector switch in an attempt to determine which Ibanez wiring circuitry your guitar follows.

An acquaintence of mine used to own a mongrel Ibanez JEM (floral neck on hot pink body :eyecrazy:) that had been modified with a 2HB scratchplate and a three-way selector switch. To my eyes, a gaping hole where the absent pickup used to be would have looked better.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Maybe the Demon would work in the bridge? It's medium output, screams with harmonics... It might be the ticket.
 
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The tone wizard is really out of it's depth with such a level of detail.

The JB will be better for lead playing, the DD is good for mixes of metalish stuff, be better at chunky playing and has a characteristic scream that isn't as piercing as the JB's high-mid pitch. I'm not sure either one is a typical church pickup...

The Jazz sounds very nice a tremolo guitar, but if you want it more bombastic and snorty go with the '59.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

The Tone Ranger said:
So I'm just scared that I'll be able to play at church, but then come home and not be able to get the 80's and modern rock n metal tones with the sick harmonics that I'm after. I mean, church knows I'm the "metal guy" so I'm not concerned with being a little "over the top" tonewise. Plus, I like being able to switch to the bridge pup and not necessarily switch the setting on the POD - kinda like stepping on a dist pedal just by switching to bridge pup. The sound guy also seems to always turn the guitar down in the mix...so I like having some high output pups to defend against that. I've even considered going active (blackouts), but too much hassle and expense.
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It's nice to meet a rather kindred spirit, if you will. I play at church, too, but enjoy hard rock at home (classic VH, XYZ, Dokken, etc.) so I have some feel for your situation. And I also completely understand about the sound guys: there's only one at our church that seems to really get mixing a band as opposed to just cranking up the vocalists to the detriment of all but the keyboardist and maybe bassist.

For some of the artists you reference, I think you'll want a lower-output pickup - say, classic VH, Hendrix, blues. You could probably get by with a higher-ouptut pickup for Skid Row, AIC stuff. But for the Zakk-inspired met-uhl mayhem (er, "brew-tality"), that's more in the active/EMG camp as you probably well know.

One suggestion would be to consider a second guitar that could be for the high-output pickups and maybe make the Ibanez a more moderate-output guitar. But if that's not a possibility, I'd say go for something more in the moderate-output camp and either deal with changing patches on the Line 6 and/or using a boost pedal of some sort.

Personally, I'd rather have the tone and response of something with a little lower output and turn on a boost/OD/distortion pedal when it's needed. I believe it's easier to add more dirt easily than it is get to a high-output pickup to sound really good with only moderate distortion. You cited EVH and his sound in the early days isn't a super-hot pickup though it is hotter than a basic PAF-style pickup. His deal was making the amp work. But if you want a Zakk Wylde tone, grab a distortion pedal and click that on when you want to pinch harmonics. That's what he does, even with his EMG setup.

But I may just be an old dinosaur in that I'm leaning much more towards moderately-hot pickups these days instead of mega-distorto-drive models. And even something like an Alnico II Pro in a Charvel can rock it pretty good at church as long as the amp is workin' it.
 
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uOpt said:
The tone wizard is really out of it's depth with such a level of detail.
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+1. There's far too many variables, and too may differences of opinion for any Tone Wizard to be the ultimate answer. It can be a useful guide for newbies, but I doubt anyone experienced here uses it.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Have you ever considered getting another guitar- one set up to play at church, one set up for filling your hard rock desires?
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

marvar said:
Have you ever considered getting another guitar- one set up to play at church, one set up for filling your hard rock desires?
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Now HERE is a great idea! If you are all about the Priest, you NEED a Duncan Distortion. That's my go to JP guitar.

And you don't God digs Priest and Maiden? Get real - the big guy invented music, so obviously he loves anything that is awesome. That would be Priest & Maiden. Some contemporary Christian praise music - not so much, I'm sure.
 
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Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Hey, if Big G let Stryper wail in His name, Priest and Maiden can't be all bad.

The problem these folks have with Iron Maiden is the NOTB cover, but they fail to grasp the meaning of the imagery: Man controls Satan's control over Man.

Mull that one over in yer next Bible Study class as you spin the disc.



As for the OP: Definitely look into getting a second guitar. You're never going to find the perfect balance of smoothness and aggression out of one axe without massive active circuitry or changing your preamp's setting. It's a physical impossibility otherwise.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

I don't think you need a second guitar to balance your metal desires with worship music, especially if you're going through a processor like your POD XT Live.

Even with modern high output pickups you can get some great smooth tones; throw some reverb and chorus on any decent bridge or neck tones on a nice amp model and you're golden. Also I wouldn't expect that your congregation will be too concerned about your guitar tone (but then my church never had a worship band), so I'd say all that matters there is that it sounds passable to you. Stay true to the metal if that's what you're really after.

I see that you have a Fender Bullet amp at home. I would think that if you're going to record in GarageBand you would forget that practice amp and go straight through your POD anyway.

As for pickups, I can definitely plug DiMarzio for the Steve's Special, but it really is at its best with mid-heavy amps like Mesas. For Duncan offerings, the JB is a great pickup for lead, rhythm, and clean tones but I found after awhile I got tired of the high-mid spike it's got. Some have called it "honky" and I would have to agree, but that's just my ears with the two amps I've owned (Peavey Triple XXX and Mark IV). I've heard it sound really heavy too, so your mileage may vary.

Also, don't overlook the Duncan Custom. It's supposed to be a great PAF-on-steroids pickup and although I've never tried it, I've read nothing but good things on this forum. Good luck in your quest!
 
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Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

God does NOT listen to Stryper!

I agree that a pod will conjure up some hellacious (pardon the phrase) tones with just a generic old 59. In fact - I'd say it would sound better than with something higher output. with the loewr output you can totally run up the pre gain and keep it cris, clear, and aggressive.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

Why not go with the Tone Wizard suggestion and go from there. The tone wizard is Seymour Duncan's advice about their own product, whose going to know more than them? There are some really generous and knowledgeable people on this forum but don't let that make you dismiss the Tone Wizard because I actually rate it as being a really useful tool. Admittedly it doesn't suggest the trembucker version of the pick-up when you suggest 'vintage tremolo' but apart from that I actually think it gives good suggestions and is a great place to start.
 
Re: Tone Wizard vs. You

kgarvey@hotmail said:
Why not go with the Tone Wizard suggestion and go from there. The tone wizard is Seymour Duncan's advice about their own product, whose going to know more than them? There are some really generous and knowledgeable people on this forum but don't let that make you dismiss the Tone Wizard because I actually rate it as being a really useful tool. Admittedly it doesn't suggest the trembucker version of the pick-up when you suggest 'vintage tremolo' but apart from that I actually think it gives good suggestions and is a great place to start.
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I'd ask for opinions here, which will vary, and sort thru them and see what's best for you. Being on this forum a while, I can assure you there are no cut & dried answers when it comes to PU selection. It's an art not a science. Too many variables. I bet most of us here have a number of guitars (maybe most of our guitars) with PU's that do not fit the Tone Wizard's answers. This is too fluid a subect for canned responses to fit very often.
 
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