Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

[WDeeGee]

Recently I compared a Tonerider Generator with a Duncan JB, swapping them in the same guitar, which gave me a good idea of how they compare.

For about half the price, the Generator's voicing is way nicer than the JB, in my opinion, but that's a personal preference, a matter of taste. Note separation is just fine... but compared with the JB, there's a nasty high end fizz going on when playing chords.

It may not be an overwhelming fizz, but back to back it really tells you that you get what you pay for, and honestly I feel I should have just saved a bit more for another "top tier" humbucker.

I've been ogling the Irongear Rolling Mills, they have some youtube vids out that sound really tasty, but it's mostly solo's so it's hard to gauge how the chords behave. But I don't want to "upgrade" to something that's better in one aspect but equally flawed in another. Any here knows how the Rolling Mills compare to a set of Duncans?

 

[Cdwillis]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

You're comparing a budget humbucker to one of the best humbucker designs of all time.

From all I've read, Tonerider make some nice pickups regardless of the price. I wouldn't discount all cheap pickups just because one that was voiced in a way you dislike was cheap. Seems like it's probably the same gauge of wire as the JB, but wound less, so there's more high end and less of the mid honk. I'm not trying to say you heard it incorrectly or something lol, just that the pickup could probably be played with to sound more acceptable if you're used to something else.

I don't know anything about the Irongear Rolling Mills. Is there something about the JB that you don't like? Just chasing tone?

 

[dystrust]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

I haven't tried Tonerider or Iron Gear (that I know of) but I have had a chance to compare several GFS pickups to similar Duncans. My takeaway was about the same as the OP's, the GFS pickups are decent but you get what you pay for.

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

Is there something about the JB that you don't like? Just chasing tone?

The JB, like mostof the top-shelf stuff, is in the "flawless" pickup range. You may not like it's voicing, maybe you prefer different EQ, less output, more output or whatever, but it has no major flaws, such as fizzy highs, poor note separation, nauseating frequency spikes, battling harmonics... As you say, the JB is a classic for a reason, one amongst the best out there.

The Rolling Mills demos on youtube sound awesome, and I really need to replace some mediocre stock ibanez pickups. But if the RM's have the same flaw as the generator (fizzy highs) I'd rather spend more money on something that I know to have no flaws. But I do tremendously like the tones coming out of the Rolling Mills in the clips.

Just waiting for someone to give me the heads up on the Rolling Mills. :wave:

 

[Despair]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

JB is actually infamous for the upper mid spike, that many find incredibly irritating, and depending on the guitar, congested sounding. Others find it addictive. One of those things that is wonderful matched to the right guitar, rig & guitarist and horrible when not. But when it works, it is very, very hard to beat. Many JB fans would ditch a guitar that didn't work with it before ditching the pickup, says a lot about how well it works for them.

I wouldn't be too quick to replace Ibanez pickups with other inexpensive pickups, as many of their OEM pickups are wound by DiMarzio [or in a few cases Seymour Duncan] and variations on popular designs. Unless you take care to replace the pickup with something that differs in the right ways, you may wind up with something that is at best a sidegrade, or actually sits worse in the instrument.

That said, I have no familiarity with Iron Gear. Certainly seem cheap for a 9K PAF. I don't believe the 13K overwound version is still 42AWG, though. Bit misleading explanation of overwinding on the Rolling Mills page. The Hot Slag looks more comparable to a JB, though.

What sort of Ibanez? If it's a semi-hollowbody or more Gibson-style, I can certainly see going for the PAFish choice, especially if you already have a all-out rocker guitar you are happy with.

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

Yes, the JB's upper mid spike (well it's not really a spike but more of a bump) is a bit too much, I guess it would only work truly well on an all mahogany body, to me.

I want news pups in an Ibanez ART (mahongany with a thick maple cap) which has okay hi output pups. The stock ACH pickups aren't bad, but they produce nasty odd harmonics in the 1200Hz frequency range that doesn't work well with gain (unpleasant chainsaw buzz). Swapping in a roughcast A5 tamed this a bit, UOA5 a bit more, but it's still there in the wind, screaching.

I also have an Ibanez SZ with a JB (mahogany neck + body + maple cap). Acoustically, the guitar sounds very bright, brighter than another SZ that I've got (who has the stock Ibz/Duncans who sound really good in that axe). The JB in the relatively bright guitar is a little more upper mid than I care for, but certainly not awful like the ACH's battling harmonics.

 

[LLL]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

Yes, the JB's upper mid spike (well it's not really a spike but more of a bump) is a bit too much, I guess it would only work truly well on an all mahogany body, to me.

Works great in alder. This is my old beatup 80's JBJ ("J" = Maricela wound) in an alder Fender strat with quartersawn maple Warmoth neck; no tone control, just 500k volume pot:

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

That does sound really good.

 

[Despair]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

Irongear's 9K, or even the 13K overwound Rolling Mills, might be fun for the ART. Whole Lotta Humbucker is probably Duncan's closest for 9k PAF. Custom series might sit well, or be too much, depending on magnet chosen and tone of the instrument.

I tend to like different sounds in every instrument, so I wouldn't tend to do another JB (or vaguely similar 16-17K 44AWG A5 humbucker). But some people like similar sound but shorter scale. Matter of personal taste and needs... On the other hand, I'm rather intrigued by the comments about the Hot Slag. 17K and high clarity despite high output?

The 13K overwound Rolling Mill bridge in the youtube videos I've hit kinda reminds me of a more open take on the 13K Epi OEMs. More usable treble (and that in an all-mahogany Explorer), similar but a bit less clangy mids. [Nickel silver instead of brass/cheap nickel baseplate & covers might account for most of that.]

 

[BluesIsBlood12]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

I found the Tonerider AC4s to be a very nice set of humbuckers. I have also had the Rocksong set, which I thought were just OK. The specs would suggest that I'd love them, so perhaps I just never found the right guitar for them. This was before I got into magnet swapping, which might have made a difference. I thought Rebel 90s were decent but nothing to write home about. In addition to those HB-types, I've really liked the City Limits strat set in multiple guitars. Really good "hot vintage" strat tones. My conclusion is that Tonerider is a pretty good company, but like any company you probably won't love every product they make. They're certainly a step up from the one GFS pickup I tried in my tele, though that doesn't mean all GFS is bad.

 

[WDeeGee]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

My conclusion is that Tonerider is a pretty good company, but like any company you probably won't love every product they make. They're certainly a step up from the one GFS pickup I tried in my tele, though that doesn't mean all GFS is bad.

Those Tonerider Generators aren't bad pickups, they sound really quite good. It's just that when you compare them side by side with a top-tier brand like SD (notably in the same guitar, I recorded samples of each and then compared the samples across various amp sims), you begin to understand why the top-tier brand is top tier and the other one is not. So it's not just hype, there is substance to it, and it's about subtle things, tiny flaws that aren't there. Those Generators are good value for money, though. But so are the Duncan JB's.

The Generators and JB's sound somewhat similar. For those recording on sims, you can filter out the fizziness with a parametric EQ quite easily. If you play gigs a lot, go for the Duncans, though.

Of course, the axe itself contributes greatly to the sound, and its inherent tone needs to make a good match with the pickup.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

I can think of a lot of decent pickups for half (or less) the cost of DiMarzio, Duncan, etc.

The problem is, at the end of the day, there's simply more to the formula than "just some metal, a magnet and some plastic" as we like to believe

Companies like DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan, etc. are true brew masters and their designs are worth the extra coin for players who really want the best. ToneRiders are really good, but I find myself always coming back to the bigger names in the end.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Tonerider, Iron Gear, GFS ...

To me, the Perpetual Burn is almost like a more evenly-voiced and controllable JB. Decent output, good with gain, less slop in the lows, and far less picky about which guitars it likes. Very good definition, with an open character - no mid spike. Plus it cleans up well with a volume knob, which IMO is the JB's Achilles' heel.

For the OP: Nothing against Tonerider or IronGear, but for just a bit more you could get a used Duncan or DiMarzio. You'd know exactly what you're getting tonewise, with no worries about build quality. Also worth considering - unlike bargain brands, if a Duncan or DiMarzio turns out not to be a perfect fit, you can sell it for about what it cost you.