treble bleed advice

K

KRKBAB

New member
My current wiring is kind of atypical:
2 humbuckers
1 250k Volume pot (no tone pots)
2 mini switches (series/split)

I want to add a simple treble bleed to my vol control.
My favorite site for wiring recommends a 001. MFD simply put between the hot wire (into the pot) and the hot wire (out of the pot). * see below

Will this make sense with my odd wiring (2 humbuckers one volume pot- no tone pots)?

*
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/pr...Basic-Volume-Treble-Bleed-Bypass-Circuit.html
 
Re: treble bleed advice

You should definitely use a resistor. I personally use a 1 nF cap in parallel with a 220k resistor.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your not using a tone pot you shouldn't be loosing any treble when turning down the vol. It was my understanding that you could use a t/b wiring when your guitar is wired the modern way. Buy not even having a tone pot there should be no terble lose when using the vol control. Just out of curiousity why are using a 250k pot with two humbuckers?
 
Re: treble bleed advice

big kurka said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your not using a tone pot you shouldn't be loosing any treble when turning down the vol. It was my understanding that you could use a t/b wiring when your guitar is wired the modern way. Buy not even having a tone pot there should be no terble lose when using the vol control. Just out of curiousity why are using a 250k pot with two humbuckers?
Click to expand...

The treble loss when rolling down the volume pot will happen regardless of what the rest of the wiring looks like.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

ItsaBass said:
What is your issue with that setup?
Click to expand...
None that I know of- that's why I asked.
I started reading about the myriad ways of treble bleeds and I didn't know if my not having any tone pots and/or humbuckers with 250 instead of 500 changed the parameters at all.
If not- that's great- I just didn't know.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

If 250 has enough top end for you, no need to change the value. If you want more top end, try 500K or 1M. There are no rules. Use what you think sounds best.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

ItsaBass said:
If 250 has enough top end for you, no need to change the value. If you want more top end, try 500K or 1M. There are no rules. Use what you think sounds best.
Click to expand...
Nope- I didn't have a question about whether or not to use 250 (I chose that for certain reasons)- I just wanted to know if the lower value pot with humbuckers would influence what kind of treble bleed I wired up.

Let's forget about the 250 issue- I think it's sidetracking my question.

I'd still like to know what's the best way for a basic treble bleed wiring.

If you think the extra info I gave is spurious- just ignore that part- thanks.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

I prefer the Kinman mod - resistor and cap in series across the non-ground lugs of the volume pot, like this:
IMG_2746.jpg

I find it the most natural sounding. The cap on its own (as shown in the schematic you posted in the link) or cap + resistor in parallel is too bright for my taste, though, sometimes it depends on the guitar as a whole.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

KRKBAB said:
Nope- I didn't have a question about whether or not to use 250 (I chose that for certain reasons)- I just wanted to know if the lower value pot with humbuckers would influence what kind of treble bleed I wired up.

Let's forget about the 250 issue- I think it's sidetracking my question.

I'd still like to know what's the best way for a basic treble bleed wiring.

If you think the extra info I gave is spurious- just ignore that part- thanks.
Click to expand...

Lack of tone pots has nothing to do with treble bleed. Same with volume pot value.

Basic treble bleed wiring (what I have in all my guitars) is a 1 nF cap in parallel with a 220k resistor connecting the output jack to the pickups (i.e. the non-grounded lugs of the volume pot).

You can also wire a 47k resistor in series with the cap instead of in parallel. I personally prefer the taper of the 220k in parallel, but some disagree. You can also change the cap value to let more or less of the treble band through. Higher value = wider frequency band retained.

That pretty much covers it.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

Well there is 3 different ways that I know of for treble bleed circuits. There is the basic cap by itself, there is the cap-resistor in series, and the cap resistor in parallel. If your vol pot is an audio taper you can use the sigle cap or the cap-resistor in series. If you have a linear taper you can use the parallel. The parallel circuit will change the taper of the pot. It will make a linear taper act like a audio taper, so if you use the parallel circuit with an audio taper pot it messes the taper up really bad that I noticed in my experiments of t/b circuits. For a rule of thumb guide if I use a resistor in any t/b circuit I use a value half of the pot, so for a 25ok pot I would use a 125k resistor. As for the cap you have to experiment, because there is no golden value cap for all guitars. Check out this link http://www.muzique.com/schem/filter.htm
It shows you hoe resistors and caps work together.

@Itsabass when you say there is treble loss when you turn down the vol with no tone pot, do you mean just a very small amount??? I don't have any guitars with out a tone pot so I really don't know. I curious because after reading numorus threads here and on other forums I was under the impression that with modern wire there was lots of treble loss and with 50 style wire there was very little and with no tone pot there was even less. Am I wrong with that assumption???
 
Last edited:
Re: treble bleed advice

big kurka said:
@Itsabass when you say there is treble loss when you turn down the vol with no tone pot, do you mean just a very small amount??? I don't have any guitars with out a tone pot so I really don't know. I curious because after reading numorus threads here and on other forums I was under the impression that with modern wire there was lots of treble loss and with 50 style wire there was very little and with no tone pot there was even less. Am I wrong with that assumption???
Click to expand...

This is why "vintage" wiring does what it does: http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/pickups/vintage-les-paul-wiring-bs-or-bfd/. It has to do with where the tone pots are placed in relation to the volume pots.

The tone pot or absence of one does not change the fact that frequencies are passed to ground unequally as you turn down the volume pot. That just happens, on any pot. A treble bleed mod attempts to flatten the e.q. of that which is dumped out to ground as you turn down the pot.
 
Re: treble bleed advice

Best one I've heard, and there are some graphs that back it up, is a 150k resistor in parallel with a .001uf pot across the non-grounded legs.
 
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