Treble bleed help.

[Artie]

I have a customer who wants me to add the treble bleed mod to their Strat. I never use it myself, so have virtually no experience with it. Google search show's multiple implementations. Cap and resistor in parallel, or in series, or just the cap by itself. Also, resistor and cap values are all over the place.

For those of you who use this, what configuration, and values, are you happy with?

Thanks all.
Artie

 

[Ashurbanipal]

I mostly use the Kinman style - 130k resistor with .0012µf cap in series, if I recall, it was ages ago when I installed them. I have tried parallel ('Duncan' style), but didn't like it as much. My old MIK RG cames stock with the plain cap (whatever the tiny ceramic disk ones are) and that worked well with the hot ceramic pups in the guitar.

There's also the Parrish mod, which is cap + two resistors - one in series (20k), the other parallel (150k). Never tried that one. Used by Fender in the American Pro series, so maybe optimized for single coils.

It's a matter of taste - they all affect the treble retention and pot taper in their own way. It's also possible to play around with different value resistors, for capacitors, the .0012 is typically recommended. Whether ceramic or pio, eh, no idea, that's like Eric Johnson level of nerd. I have pio just because I happened to order kits with those, and they look cool, because it's all about looks in the end, especially stuff you practically never see .

Is your customer familiar with 50s wiring?

 

[Artie]

Is your customer familiar with 50s wiring?

I don't think so. Thanks for the info. I'll try a few different things and see what sounds best. It's a fairly stock Strat with standard Fender singles.

 

[Kac]

I used to do it with a single resistor. Wish I could find my old posts about it.

 

[Artie]

I used to do it with a single resistor. Wish I could find my old posts about it.

I don't doubt you . . . but that is weird from an electrical POV. I'm not sure how a resistor would allow highs to remain as you lowered the volume. I'd love to see those diagrams.

 

[zionstrat]

Kinnman as well.. there are trade-offs... but it by far works the best on average.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kin...d=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=-O4kAgObz4ER9M

As far as values, I almost always monkey around with alligator clips in place for bleed as well as tone control... It's rare for me to be changing bleed or tone without doing other changes so I usually look at this as the last pass to lightly tailor the tone.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[beaubrummels]

Here's a nice list:
https://drkevguitar.com/2016/11/24/treble-bleed-mod-roundup/

I recently tried an RC treble bleed (near Duncan recipe of 100k / 1.2nF in parallel) on my Jackson and it worked in an unexpected way. It didn't preserve highs while turning down the overall volume, but rather it turned down just the bass/low end first while leaving a significant amount of treble/mid/high end at full volume, then in the last 1-2 ticks turned the whole works off. It was interesting, but I would question who would need that in a Strat. Like, what pickups are in it that need this?

 

[Teleplayer]

Fender used to sell a "Tone saver" accesory that was the same values as the Kinman circuit.

On the Shawbucker HSS strat there is a dual 250k / 500k volume pot and they used a circuit like the one attached for the single coils.

It might sound a bit exaggerated, but you need to try the stock values first. Then maybe drop the cap to 1000pf and experiment with 33k~47k in place of the 2ok.

 

[PFDarkside]

Since they all sound and behave differently, what if you took two flying leads with alligator clips and invited him over to try a few options out?

I’ve had just the cap on a MIJ Fender with Texas Specials, it works pretty well. It’s a bit much but I’m interested in a few more experiments.

 

[Artie]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I'm going to use this to learn for myself what works, and what is weird. As for the customer, he's somewhat wishy-washy, and now doesn't even want it. So . . . :dunno:

 

[Hank-]

There is the Frank Fablo version of it that connects the treble bleed from the volume pot to the unused lug of the tone pot. I have converted my tone pots to no loads so I think it doesn't work properly in mine but anyways the benefit of it is that it allows you to control the amount of treble bleed(brightness) via the tone pot. The single cap or reisitor + cap in series treble bleeds work in this setup.

I much preferred not using the resistor with the treble bleeds & use linear volume pot to spread out the taper that the Duncan treble bleed version provides. For values I liked 330pF or 180pF, with or without a 120k to 150k resistor. I prefer poly cqps for bleeds but low values are hard to come across easily.

 

[freefrog]

I'll try a few different things and see what sounds best.

Nothing is better than this in my extremely humble opinion. Let us know what sounds better to your ears, Artie.

Indifferent footnotes:
-Interresting article here: https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5317/treble-bleed-circuit
-personally, I tend to use the Kinman recipe, but "adjusted to taste";
-ideally (IMHO), any treble bleed circuit should be tuned according to the "loads" in presence: resistance (and taper) of pots, capacitance of wires + cable(s), input impedance of the first "host" in which the guitar is plugged. Reason why I agree with the idea to try empirically various tricks...

 

[Artie]

-Interresting article here: https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5317/treble-bleed-circuit

Great article. Thanks for that link.

 

[devastone]

I usually just use a cap, ~330pF (I think), simple and works well enough for me.

 

[Kac]

My mod used to be with a single capacitor not a resistor… I just bought a kit on eBay to try some more.

 

[Artie]

Thanks again all. I appreciate it. I'm going to rig up something so that I can try all these techniques. (Now that the customer is out of my hair.)

 

[Clint 55]

I also use just a cap in the 100 - 300pf range because it's simple and works. Cap and resistor in series can be beneficial. Parallel doesn't work, messes up the pot taper.

 

[jeremy]

i didnt like the way the tone thinned out as i rolled down the volume with just the cap but i know it works for some people

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I prefer just the cap for humbucker guitars. I like them to thin out a bit when I roll back.
However I don't use a bleed with PAF type pickups; 50s wiring does just fine for me.

Not sure if cap alone would work as well for singlecoils, with or without a master volume.
I don't think any of my singlecoil guitars has a treble bleed; don't feel any need for it.
Might consider one for a neck P90 though.

 

[Kac]

I prefer just the cap for humbucker guitars. I like them to thin out a bit when I roll back.
However I don't use a bleed with PAF type pickups; 50s wiring does just fine for me.

Yes agreed! For Invader and similar type Humbuckers I use the capacitor only. And will be doing so with a strat project soon!