Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

[ErikH]

So, what's the tonal difference between the two?

I'm looking at possibly replacing the block in one of my Strats. Haven't totally decided yet. I have a brass block on one of my Floyd equipped Strats and love it. I have a Gotoh vintage trem with what I believe is a steel block and I love it too. But, I never have heard a steel and brass block in the same guitar to be able to compare any differences.

Share your experiences/opinions/verbal spewage (LOL).

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

i've found that the tone of the blocks pretty much goes hand in hand with the density of the metals. brass is a softer metal so you get a warmer rounder tone yet it does have a bell like ring or chime to it so they certainly aren't dull. steel is a much harder metal so it's a bit brighter a bit harsher yet a bit more articulate due to that added bite but it doesn't have that round bottom brass has which is IMO always a plus. i haven't tried a titanium block myself but i'd be willing to guess they're brighter than steel. this is why zinc blocks and pot metal blocks all suck. they don't ring they just thud and sound muted and dull. if you drop a zinc block on the floor it will thud and hardly ring. if you drop brass it will ring almost musically. if you drop steel you'll cringe at the harsh bright sound it will make that will ring out for quite a while. IMO brass blocks are the best in nearly every situation from floyds to vintage strat trems to modern 2 point strat trems, they just round things off and aren't as harsh as steel and are more musical to my ears.

-Mike

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Yet Titanium is quite light in comparison to the other alternatives mentioned, and it's not an extremely dense element (less so than iron and various steels) - has an excellent strength to weight ratio. Common alloys are aluminium, iron, and some others.

It must be noted that density and hardness are not synonymous when it comes to metals - density is more to do with how many atoms are packed in per centimetre cubed. E.g. Mercury is denser than Iron and Titanium, but it's liquid at room temperature; Copper is also denser than Iron and Titanium, but it's quite soft.

So what would Titanium mean in terms of tone - transparency, perhaps; similar in principle to what an aluminium (another low density element) tailpiece does on a fixed bridge guitar, remember the ravings of LP zealots after switching their stock tailpiece for a vintage-correct aluminium one? One important thing regarding a bridge, IMO, is something that does not interfere too much with the strings and the body.

You can also experiment with saddles too. I think Eric Johnson has used brass saddles on the top string of his Strats to even out the tone, i.e. rein in the harshness.

All this is a simplification, I expect there are other variables involved which my ignorance of physics and chemistry prevents me from seeing and making conclusions. Though I wish I had the $$ and time to be dropping different trem blocks on the floor like XSSIVE in the name of tone and science .

Thou brass users - what freq would you say the stuff emphasizes?

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Consider this verbal spewage:

I don't know about blocks, but barrel saddles on a tele folow pretty closely what Xsessive pointed out. Oddly enough, though, I like steel better than brass on my tele's. Steel sounds snappier and twangier to me.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Anybody else? Surely with all the tone experts around here there has to be more opinions on this.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Callaham says cold rolled steel is the only material to use for trem blocks.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

 

[Jet-Jaguar]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

Good question. I do know that brass is a very musical metal. I don't know if that is all that there is to it and why it's used for brass instruments. I'm curious to know myself.

I'd really like some more feedback on this subject. With all the talk about trem blocks on here and getting them from this guy, or that guy, surely there are more opinions.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

The Gotoh bridge is likely not steel so this comparison might not hold water but if you have a true steel block and a brass block the brass block will have a softer tone and will be a little slower in it's attack and I think they have less sustain as well...

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I have a PRS and a Musicman, both of these have Brass blocks and they sound lovely.

PRS is a total tone hound and he's never used Steel blocks !!!

However my Suhr has a steel block and sounds harsh to me, it's also started to RUST on the inside.

A company called Killerguitarcomponents.com make brass blocks and I've just sent them my Suhr block to copy in Brass.

I'll post my findings when it comes back, might be a few weeks though.

I'm of the opinion that bells are brass for a reason so let's find out !

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I'm pretty sure my Gotoh bridge block is steel.

I've seen the killerguitarcomponents.com stuff and am curious about them. They're the only place I could find that makes replacement brass blocks for Strat bridges. Everything else is for a Floyd.

I'm curious to know how that works out, wolf. Keep me posted.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

A good friend has used their Floyd blocks and he's totally stunned.

He's the reason I've made my decision.

We've exchanged many e mails about my requirements and i've found them prompt, polite and accomodating, that bodes very well in my opinion.

Will post my findings asap. :friday:

 

[mudpuppy]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

It can't be price. Brass is way more expensive than steel.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I ordered a Callaham bridge for my strat - maybe I'll get a brass block for it and try to compare.

edit - now that I think of it I probably won't be able to use the brass one with the bar I get from Calaham - not sure though.

 

[loudriver23]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I've seen several places that sell the steel blocks, but where can I go to look at the brass ones?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I've seen several places that sell the steel blocks, but where can I go to look at the brass ones?

http://www.killerguitarcomponents.com/

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

THe physics of it is quite complex. There are several factors to the equation.

Density: Density directly influences the weight of the block and therefore the "pendulum bob" effect. This has more effect than you might think as the weight of the block acts as a buffer between the springs and the strings, damping the movement of the bridge and allowing or preventing energy from the strings being dissipated in the shock absorbent effect of the springs. Basically, the lighter the block, the less effective it is at preventing harmonic energy from being dissipated.

Ductility (Hardness): This affects the restitution characteristics of the material. The co-efficient of restitution is the ratio of energy in to energy out. The lower the C of R is the more energy is lost through contact with the material at each vibration cycle. As a rule, the more ductile a material is, the lower its co-efficient of restitution and the less sustain it supports. This will also affect the tone as harmonics will respond differently to the restitution characteristics of the material.

Mass: The pendulum bob thing again. It's pointless having a brass block if you make it so small it has very little mass

Geometry: A shaped block such as on a US strat is less efficient at buffering/damping than a rectangular block because the centre of mass is raised closer to the trem pivot.

Elasticity: This is easily confused with the restitution characteristics and they are closely related.

There are also issues such as whether a material is cast or forged as many of the above characteristics are dependent on "process" factors. Cast material may be lighter and stiffer than forged or drawn materials with lower ductility and reduced mass but higher stiffness.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

Thanks for that explanation, Doc. Physics, or science in general, wasn't my best subject but I think I get what you are saying here.

Correct me I'm wrong on this. The more dense, harder and greater mass, the better the block will serve it's purpose. Is that right? Or is it really all dependent on the material used?

 

[MattPete]

Re: Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

I think at the time (centuries ago) steel was exotic and expensive, hence brass bells. It's stuck ever since. I don't know if they sound different from steel, or if it's just the tradition of having brass bells.