Trembucker spaced vs Regular spaced humbuckers
- Thread starter pittbull
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
No. Coils are wound to a turn count, ensuring similar performance. But as Mincer mentioned, if you put a regular-spaced humbucker in a trem guitar, the outside E strings might sound weaker. Going the other way, and putting a trem-spaced pickup in a regular spaced guitar doesn't have any tonal or level issues, IME.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I doubt they sound 100% the same because of the different DCR and coil geometry. It's impossible even if they're wound to the same number of turns.
Also, even two regular-spaced or two trem-spaced Duncan Distortion will sound slightly different because of tolerances in the wire. That's why sometimes you get a DD that measures 15.-something K vs. sometimes up to 17K. I think winding them the same number of turns helps keep them both performing as close as it can be, but electrically, they will not be 100% the same.
That being said, IME, the difference has been negligible. Any healthy Duncan Distortion sounds like a Duncan Distortion, be it Trembucker or regular-spaced.
Also, even two regular-spaced or two trem-spaced Duncan Distortion will sound slightly different because of tolerances in the wire. That's why sometimes you get a DD that measures 15.-something K vs. sometimes up to 17K. I think winding them the same number of turns helps keep them both performing as close as it can be, but electrically, they will not be 100% the same.
That being said, IME, the difference has been negligible. Any healthy Duncan Distortion sounds like a Duncan Distortion, be it Trembucker or regular-spaced.
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
AFAIK differing DCR in the same model pickup doesn't materially change the sound or output. It only tells you how much copper is on the bobbins. This topic was already discussed on here and was answered by current/former Duncan employees at the time. Anyone can search for it.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I'll look for it. On first thought, I'm dubious. My initial thoughts would be there's no way "how much copper is on the bobbins" doesn't have an effect on the pickup's sound. But I'll search for it. I'd love to be proven wrong.
But other than DCR, they are "seeing" the strings over a different area too. Very slightly, but there. I guess it's kind of a similar deal as to why people comment humbucker-sized P90's can't sound like traditional P90's because the coils are not shaped the same, just to a lesser degree.
But like I said. All Duncan Distortions I've had have sounded like Duncan Distortions. I have, however, never A/B'd different Duncan Distortions on the same guitar. I'd love to compare one Duncan Distortion that read low but within spec on the meter vs. a DD that read high. That'd be a great comparison. I don't think anyone has ever tried an experiment like that?
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What is the string spacing for that guitar?
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Well you can be dubious about Duncan employees then. FWIW I've had Trembucker and Humbucker spaced of the same model, and different DCR versions of the same spacing model, in the same guitar, and they don't sound different. As long as it's the same number of turns and same layering it sounds the same IME.
freefrog
Well-known member
What Rex_Rocker said. IME, there's a measurable / audible difference, mostly because of coil geometry (and to how different lengths of coil displace the "magnetic bump" under each E string), but it's negligible, especially with high output pickups. Personally I've found it more annoying with low output / P.A.F. clones (I don't like much trembucker SH1's, for instance, since i find them shrill) but I wouldn't claim it's an "issue". YMMV.
Demo here, BTW (with revelation of pickup A / pickup B from 4:53):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_TkvGHlHG8
Demo here, BTW (with revelation of pickup A / pickup B from 4:53):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_TkvGHlHG8
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Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
They do. Just not for the traditional PAF-types.
But the 500T, 498T, and the 490T are all wider spaced bobbins than the rest of the lineup, just not as wide as Duncan Trembuckers.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
It doesn't require a reveal because you can see that A doesn't line up with the strings from the Fender bridge while B does. All of us have mentioned that humbucker under Fender width does have a perceptible difference. But that's not related to the tone of the pickup, but the level balance of the outside E strings. To my ear the tone of both pickups were the same. The differences I heard were related to the high E string being off the outside of the humbucker. Of course, he used JBs which is not the most transparent pickup to use to reveal any differences.
freefrog
Well-known member
When level balance of the outside E strings changes, it modifies the EQing and therefore the tone, in my understanding... but there's more than this: all other factors being equal, a coil of Gibson style humbucker with the same number of turns on a longer bobbin tends to be inherently brighter IME. What makes me tell that is our experience with the pickups designed by my friend winder. His trembuckers are consistently brighter than his regular HB's with same specs, in Gibson style guitars as well as in Fender style instruments. Same experience for me with other products (trembucker SH1's vs regular ones, for instance and as already mentioned).
If it wasn't the case, I wouldn't have answered as above...
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Ok, I haven't had that experience with Duncans. Custom, Custom Custom, Custom 5, Jazz, whether trembucker or humbucker sound the same in the same guitar, and when moving them between multiple guitars of different types, like LPs, SGs and Jackson. I definitely wouldn't say Duncan Trembuckers are brighter than their humbucker counterparts. Duncan must be doing something to compensate for the larger bobbin, if what you say is true. The outside E balance doesn't change the pickup EQ significantly IME, just makes those strings quieter so I have to put the adjustable poles in a slight smile pattern to even it out.
freefrog
Well-known member
Agreed: when a copper shielding is there, it protects the bigger area of the coils against HF noise but it also contributes to eddy currents, taming the slightly brighter tone due to longer coils. At least that's how we understand (and use) it here. YMMV.
That's why I've underlined "all other factors being equal" in my previous answer...
Now and to put things in perspective: IME and IMHO, guitar pickups are so falsely simple devices that opposite experiences are possible without making wrong people with these experiences.
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Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
It would matter if you're bothered by the aesthetics of the pickup's poles not lining up. Sonically, I bet it would be fine, especially if you're going for a hotter pickup.
Personally, I'd say if you have the choice, go for the "right" spacing for a Floyd.
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