Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

[guff daddy]

Hi - first post on this forum.
I'm putting together as my first kit build a 335 with a couple of DiMarzio Super Distortions (came out of an old guitar) and Triple Shots. I have a couple of Bourns Model 95 pots i want to use for volume and Bourns PDB183 push pull pots which I want to use for tone, and to switch between both pickups in series and also out of phase.

The only wiring diagram I can find is on the Seymour Duncan site is is for something similar but using the volume pots as push/pull rather than tone. I can only just about follow a diagram for the purpose of soldering a to b and have only a vague idea of WHY a is soldered to b so I don't think I can adapt this diagram for what I want/ Can anyone point me to a diagram I can follow? Ultimately I don't expect to stick with these pickups and eventually I want to stick in a pair of P-Rails when budget permits...

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Hi guff daddy, and welcome to the forum!

Here's the thing about push/pull pots that sometimes stumps people... the ONLY relationship they necessarily have in common with one another is that they are physically attached to one another! Otherwise, the potentiometer and the switch are entirely separate components.

That means that the only thing you have to do in order to translate volume push/pulls to tone is to move the bottom (push/pull) part to a different part of the diagram. The wiring will remain the same, it'll just be in another position.

If that doesn't really help, post a link to the diagram you're wanting to use and I can probably whip up an altered one for you tonight or tomorrow.

Good luck!

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Hi guff daddy, and welcome to the forum!

Here's the thing about push/pull pots that sometimes stumps people... the ONLY relationship they necessarily have in common with one another is that they are physically attached to one another! Otherwise, the potentiometer and the switch are entirely separate components.

That means that the only thing you have to do in order to translate volume push/pulls to tone is to move the bottom (push/pull) part to a different part of the diagram. The wiring will remain the same, it'll just be in another position.

If that doesn't really help, post a link to the diagram you're wanting to use and I can probably whip up an altered one for you tonight or tomorrow.

Good luck!

Hi BriGuy1968 and thanks for the welcome and the advice.

I get what you mean - I think I was just hoping for a diagram I could follow in a completely brain-dead manner, but it's probably better that I have to think about it just a little. Looking at it, it isn't too difficult - certainly having the triple shots is making it a lot easier than the normaly Jimmy Page wiring with 4 push pulls.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

I used exactly the same diagram a couple of months ago when I re-wired "Rachel," my 2005 Ibanez Artcore AS83 with P-Rails and Triple Shots.

I really love how it sounds now... VERY versatile guitar! Although I never use the Master Series/Parallel from that diagram... I just don't feel the need.

Enjoy your project!


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[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Resurrecting this thread as I have finally completed the Triple Shot and pickups installation however I'm having a problem with the Master Series/Parallel switch - when the switch is activated (i.e. both pickups in parallel) only the neck pickup is active, the bridge pickup is dead completely. I've gone over the wiring a couple of times and can't find the problem - can anyone confirm that they got this working ok using this diagram and I'll plug away further. The reason I ask is that I found various threads which mention "dead positions" in some wiring diagrams - is this one of them? I don't understand how the two pickups in parallel can work if one of the pickups isn't active at all.

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Further clarification - actually it is the bridge pickup which is the issue. I understand that it will be "dead" when the switch is set to series mode and the bridge pickup only is selected. However when in series mode and both pickups are selected, only the neck pickup gives any signal at all. Testing by tapping the poles with a screwdriver - the bridge pickup gives no sound at all until it is switched back to parallel mode. Everything else is working fine.

I'm now at the stage where I'm thinking of completely disassembling and starting again from scratch - unless anyone has any suggestions?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

I think it is difficult to know without seeing...is there a way to post some pics of your wiring? The people here are really good at diagnosing things like this. Also, what kit did you use to build this? It sounds like fun..

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

I've tried to get a pic of the wiring but I can't get one which shows all connections. At the moment I just wondered if someone could confirm the diagram is correct because I've double/triple checked all my connections and they seem fine. Earlier in the thread BriGuy1968 indicated he had used this diagram successfully however he mentioned that he doesn't use the master series/parallel switch so I'm wondering is there a fault in the diagram?


Kit was from http://www.rmolsonguitars.com/ - came with the set neck pre-installed.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

I've tried to get a pic of the wiring but I can't get one which shows all connections. At the moment I just wondered if someone could confirm the diagram is correct because I've double/triple checked all my connections and they seem fine. Earlier in the thread BriGuy1968 indicated he had used this diagram successfully however he mentioned that he doesn't use the master series/parallel switch so I'm wondering is there a fault in the diagram?


Kit was from http://www.rmolsonguitars.com/ - came with the set neck pre-installed.

Hey guff daddy... sorry I'm so late to this party. The reason I don't use the master series/parallel very often is that I personally just don't feel much need for it. I just plugged in a few moments ago and tested it (the same way... by tapping with a screwdriver on the poles) and it works fine. With the series knob pulled I have both pickups in series in the neck and center positions and no sound in the bridge position.

The only thing I can think of that is a little different is that I re-did that diagram to personalize it for my guitar. For the most part it's identical except that I switched the Phase Reverse to the Neck Volume and the Master Series/Parallel to the Bridge Volume. I also wired the Triple Shots in the reverse way, so that the switches point toward the coil that's on instead of the one that's off. Neither of these things should make any difference to the Master Series/Parallel. For grins, though, here's what I actually worked from. I don't recall finding anything I had to change and, if I had, I would have updated this diagram just because I like to have it that way.

Please... go ahead and ask me any questions!

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Hey thanks ever so much for that - the diagram looks really clear and easy to follow - even better than the ones on the SD site. I'll have a look at it tomorrow and see if I can get it working.

Thanks again.

 

[Gstring]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Assuming that the fault is not in the push pull (this has been known) I have usually found that the cause of a dead pick up when in combination is usually an unwanted ground kicking in somewhere. This is especially true with series although your problem stems from parallel. Check and re check that the bridge hot is not grounding somehow when switch engaged.

I find it a bit odd that the SD wiring shows the neck pup being OOP to start with. Not sure what the logic of this is.

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

I decided to get all new pots in case the push pull was the problem which is why I haven't worked on this until today.

So I completely took the whole thing apart and rewired based in BriGuy1969's diagram using 4 new pots and new wire (changed from using braided outer sleeve to using teflon coated twisted pair - it was a lot easier).

And the result? Exactly the same. Series/Parallel switch means that only the neck pickup sounds - bridge pickup still dead. Again, all other positions/switches/sounds seem to be working fine (haven't restrung it as yet as I haven't installed the wiring loom yet.)

This is truly puzzling - the only thing I haven't changed is the triple shots and/or pickups - but I can't see how they could be the issue...

 

[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Well I stuck a couple of humbuckers in directly connecting to the pots - bypassed the triple shots/pickups completely - and it works fine! So, it isn't the wiring or the pots - it is something in either the triple shots or else the pickups...

I'll look into it further tomorrow - time now to put down the soldering iron and pickup a beer (did you see what I did there...)

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Those Triple Shots can be a bit fragile, and now that I think about it, it seems like I had to go back into one of them and re-solder in order to get it to work right...

I'm a bit puzzled as well. Maybe I'll try to spend a little time tonight going over that diagram looking for possible things that could cause the problem you describe.

Just to clarify, when the series/parallel switch is in the normal (parallel) position, everything is fine, but when it's pulled up into series you only get sound from the neck pickup in both the neck and center toggle positions, right?


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[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Those Triple Shots can be a bit fragile, and now that I think about it, it seems like I had to go back into one of them and re-solder in order to get it to work right...

I'm a bit puzzled as well. Maybe I'll try to spend a little time tonight going over that diagram looking for possible things that could cause the problem you describe.

Just to clarify, when the series/parallel switch is in the normal (parallel) position, everything is fine, but when it's pulled up into series you only get sound from the neck pickup in both the neck and center toggle positions, right?


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Yep thats right. I also had to resolder some of the connections -in the triple shot as it arrived damaged...

 

[BriGuy1968]

Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Yep thats right. I also had to resolder some of the connections -in the triple shot as it arrived damaged...

If the Triple Shots arrived damaged I think I'd look at them as the most likely culprit. Assuming you re-soldered the connections correctly, there could still be other damage that's not necessarily visible. Try installing the P-Rails like you did the other humbuckers, without the Triple Shots and with the red and white wires twisted together, and see if it works. If so, I'd make a damage claim with whom ever you purchased the Triple Shots. If not, then it almost has to be one of the P-Rails.

The pickups are pretty rugged though... my money's on the Triple Shots being faulty (or at least one of them).


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[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Actually I'm not using P-Rails in this - it's a couple of pickups I got from a small producer in the UK (Fletcher Pickups) - more like a normal humbucker but with one overwound coil using two alnico 4 bar magnets with pole screws and the other underwound using alnico 5 slugs.

I'll try the pickups wired in directly without the triple shots but at this stage I'm concerned that de- and re-soldering the triple shots too much is going to cause problems as they are so delicate.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Actually I'm not using P-Rails in this - it's a couple of pickups I got from a small producer in the UK (Fletcher Pickups) - more like a normal humbucker but with one overwound coil using two alnico 4 bar magnets with pole screws and the other underwound using alnico 5 slugs.

I'll try the pickups wired in directly without the triple shots but at this stage I'm concerned that de- and re-soldering the triple shots too much is going to cause problems as they are so delicate.

Ah... sorry! It's been awhile since I read your original post closely, and I guess I just assumed!

In either case, though, it's still the same thing... and yeah, just de-soldering and re-soldering once made me nervous about the Triple Shots fragility as well. Too bad they can't be made a bit more robust, but once they're wired up and installed there's no reason why they would move again.


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[guff daddy]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

ONe of the original reasons I got the triple shots was because I thought it would make swapping out pickups a bit easier - I didn't fancy having the pull the whole wiring loom if I wanted to change the pickups. At this stage, having installed/removed the wiring 4 or 5 times, the next time it goes in, it is staying there!

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Triple shot with tone push/pull pots

Yeah... Semi-hollows are wonderful to play, but a real B1+€# to work on!


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