Trouble with 70s precision bass

[astrozombie]

I was setting up my friends late seventies p bass today. It has a badass 2 installed (an ORIGINAL badass 2 from when it came out) and so the height adjustment screws were frozen.

I put in some stainless steel replacements and tried to adjust relief and action.

The neck isn't very easy to adjust. On top of the fact that it has a very round radius (must be 7.25?) the truss rod is kind of unpredictable. It does adjust but it was slightly hard to turn and after tuning up I noticed that the string tension pulled the neck a little back into now again.

The rod works, it does adjust, but what is straight as an arrow without strings has slight relief when tuned.

The action after the 12th fret seems to be a little high as well. I can't stop it down too much without those higher notes fretting out.

I put some business cards in the neck pocket as a makeshift shim to see if that made it any better. It seems to have made it a little less hard to play.

Am I expecting too much out of this bass? I was trying to get a straight neck with easy to fret action on the higher notes. Not too high, not too low. Maybe the specs on it just don't permit that sort of modern setup?


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[ginormous]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

When I adjusted my neck I'd always give it a day or two to sort out, with no string tension.

An original Leo Quan Badass II with sticky screws? Yeah, good move on the stainless.
I'd have shot it with some WD-40 and kept going. Were they totally rusted out?

A luthier I know used to rout out a pocket in the bridge, so the Badass would sit lower.
The shim works (I used a tortoise-shell Fender thin pick), but it's a stopgap measure.

 

[saladin]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

I never had luck with Badassess on a P-Bass. They always sit too high.
Get a good Gotoh bridge and be done!

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

Oh yeah! Leo Quan and the genius idea of making the screws a different material than the saddles. They really rust in there with some sweat and time and it becomes a major pain. Chances are like the others are saying, the badass is sitting too high, even though the badass 2 was supposed to be the lower sitting model for the fenders. Easiest thing might be to order a different bridge like Saladin said.

"what is straight as an arrow without strings has slight relief when tuned."

THAT I have never heard of.

 

[dg27]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

Get a good Gotoh bridge and be done!

The bridge on my '76 P is stock, but I have Gotoh 201s on three of my basses and love it.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

"what is straight as an arrow without strings has slight relief when tuned."

THAT I have never heard of.

really? it happens all the time. a 45-105 set of bass strings puts about 170 lbs of tension on the neck

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

really? it happens all the time. a 45-105 set of bass strings puts about 170 lbs of tension on the neck

Jesus Christ

What do you guys recommend for shimming?

The screws on it weren't very rusty, some of them were just starting to lose the thread on the top where the adjustment key goes.


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[jeremy]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

almost anything that's the right thickness can work as a shim

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

What do you guys recommend for shimming?

Preferably, nothing. For a bass to be the best version of itself, it needs to have a rock solid connection at the neck and body, with 100% surface contact and as tight as possible screws/bolts. Anything else is a compromise.

Of course, we make compromises all the time, so the real question is which compromises are the best in a given situation. In this case, using a shim to adjust the neck angle to accommodate the bridge is, IMO, sort of a rinky-dink measure. If having the Badass II bridge on there is really that important (and therefore permanent), options that would make the bass the best it could be would be to shave the joint of the neck to change the angle, shave the neck pocket, or as someone suggested above, route a pocket for the bridge.

Of course, doing any of that would probably cause the resale value to plummet, and they are somewhat extreme measures anyway. Which leaves the two easiest measures -- shimming the neck or replacing the bridge. Both are easy, but one is cheap and one results in a better bass. IMO.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

I tried a BadAss II on my 78/79 fretless P. This made the action even more ridiculous than it would have been on a fretted instrument. I reverted to the original stamped steel item. IMO, it is part of the sound.

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

I wouldn't do that either. I don't mind having a Fender bridge, as they do make some good heavy ones, but I prefer something more solid and flexible and better looking than the bent metal bridge. I think the only impact of a heavier bridge on the sound might be a slight increase in brightness and sustain, and those are not bad things IMO.

Of course, YMMV.


I appreciate Leo Quan for basically inventing/popularizing the aftermarket bridge market, and I actually put a Badass on a bass in 1980. But there are too many other better designs for me to ever want one again.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

You guys really think putting a typical fender p bass bridge on it would make the playability better?

Do you think the sound would change much? It has an EMG pickup.


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[Funkfingers]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

In my opinion, a playable action via a bridge of traditional Fender proportions and maximum neck pocket contact is preferable to the compromise of a generously shimmed neck.

 

[BlueTalon]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

You guys really think putting a typical fender p bass bridge on it would make the playability better?

Do you think the sound would change much? It has an EMG pickup.

I think in this case, changing from a Badass to a typical Fender bridge would make the playability better, but so would changing it to a Babicz, or a Gotoh, or a Hipshot, or a Schaller...

It will definitely improve the sound, but not necessarily directly. There might be a noticeable difference in the tone when playing an open string, but I wouldn't bet on it. However, replacing a bridge that doesn't fit, with a bridge that does fit, makes it easier to both play and intonate. When the action is too high, the act of fretting will pull the bass out of tune, and that makes it sound crappy.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

It's not that high, the action. 5/64ths at the 15th fret. That's acceptable right?


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[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

really? it happens all the time. a 45-105 set of bass strings puts about 170 lbs of tension on the neck

My thoughts exactly. Let's keep in mind we're talking bass here...your neck will move just tuning down a whole step. Also, the comment about leaving a neck a day or two with no string tension after adjusting...completely useless (especially on a bass). Checking it after a day WITH tension makes more sense.

Sounds like your over your head tbh. Not knocking you, but maybe bring it to someone with more experience can shed some light on some things for you. Could be something (or a combination) of simple things that your just overlooking.

EDIT: Also, measurements of relief and string height are more of a rough guide IMO. The only real way is to play it and see for yourself.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

You guys really think putting a typical fender p bass bridge on it would make the playability better?

Not directly. It is the geometry between the neck joint alignment and the strings that is critical. The above-mention Gotoh 201B bridge is a great product - a good compromise between traditional dimensions and increased mass.

Do you think the sound would change much? It has an EMG pickup.

This, as you already know, is entirely dependent upon the distance between the pickup and the strings.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

really? it happens all the time. a 45-105 set of bass strings puts about 170 lbs of tension on the neck

Well I understand that, obviously it moves a bit but he made it sound like a more substantial difference. Like moving an out of the ordinary amount.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

The bass is in working order. I have no idea what the body wood is. Anyone want to take any guesses based on the grain?

The action is at 5/64ths, at the 15th fret. There is some minimal buzzing at the highest frets (16,17 etc)

The owner says its fine. He was used I playing it with huge relief in the neck and his attack is a lot harder than I can even pick so the extra wiggle room is alright.




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[Funkfingers]

Re: Trouble with 70s precision bass

American Light (or White) Ash.