True Bypass VS Buffer

[ehdwuld]

ok so I like the long instrument cables

Josh at JHS, says I need a buffer on either end of my Pedalboard to make up for my cables and ton of pedals
so I got a tuner and a Fuzz first
then I can stick the Boss DS-1 in after the Fuzz and just not turn it on
this gives me my first Buffer

I have some Behringer reverbs and such I can stick at the end of the line before it hits the front of the amp

Since Behringers are copies of Boss
do they have the same buffer?
Seems like the would

What about any other pedal not labeled "True Bypass"
would they have buffers by default or is it just a crap shoot
I have a Biyang Tri Reverb that does not say True Bypass on its switch
does anyone know if it is

is there a test with a meter that can tell if it has a buffer or not?

 

[nexion218]

On a true bypass the signal will go through even if the pedal is unpowered, because it should act as a piece of cable when not engaged. Unpowered buffered pedals will not let your signal through. At least according to my limited knowledge and experience....

 

[ehdwuld]

thanks for the link that clears a lot up
and it explains why that old script orange phaser swirls no matter what

 

[GuitarStv]

In my experience you usually want to put a buffer as close to the cable that comes out of your guitar as possible. After the buffer you can run a lot of cable and pedals without really caring too much about tone loss. Also important to note - most pedals will act as a buffer when on . . . so when in doubt you can always just stick a clean boost at the front and leave it on all the time to accomplish this.

 

[ehdwuld]

Well Josh said not before a fuzz

So tuner
then Fuzz
Then some boost or the Boss DS1

Like in the Op

So any pedal at the end of chain will work?

 

[GuitarStv]

Well Josh said not before a fuzz

So tuner
then Fuzz
Then some boost or the Boss DS1

Like in the Op

So any pedal at the end of chain will work?

Depends on the fuzz you have. Fuzz faces and primitive type fuzzes (tone benders, etc.) usually like to be first. A big muff doesn't care.

The DS-1 is buffered. I'd put the tuner after the fuzz and DS-1 - just kick off the gain to tune and kick it back on when you're done. This way you've only got one pedal before the buffer.

 

[Chistopher]

Usually I only keep buffers on my distortions because that's what the guitar sees first. After that I don't particularly care so long as it's not a crappy buffer, but you don't see those too much these days.

 

[misterwhizzy]

is there a test with a meter that can tell if it has a buffer or not?

Easier than that. A buffer needs power to work. If you unplug the pedal and still get sound, it doesn't have a buffer.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't know if all Boss pedals have the same buffer, but I changed from a TU-3 to a TC Polytune 3 because the buffer clipped/compressed with hot pickups. I could literally see it when I recorded DI's from the both the main and parallel outs. That's unacceptable, IMO.

 

[devastone]

What kind of tune is it? If it's a Boss TU it has a buffer.

 

[PFDarkside]

I don't know if all Boss pedals have the same buffer, but I changed from a TU-3 to a TC Polytune 3 because the buffer clipped/compressed with hot pickups. I could literally see it when I recorded DI's from the both the main and parallel outs. That's unacceptable, IMO.

They don’t. The input impedance of the TU-2, TU-3 and TU-3W are different. Reportedly the TU-2 was 1M, the TU-3 is 2.2M and the TU-3W is 1M or True Bypass. If you compare the TU-3 to the others you might find it slightly brighter if it’s the first in line.

ehdwuld, I think your DS-1 plan sounds good. if you find weird things happening when you engage/disengage a pedal, you can consider an output buffer. Technically it’s “better” to have one, but “technically” a Fuzz Face is a Schmitt Trigger that doesn’t belong anywhere near an audio path!


The reason for the output buffer is to make the impedance relationship between the pedals and the amp input common. In rare cases you could step on a delay or chorus pedal and all of a sudden you are driving the amp input differently causing a tonal or gain change. I had this happen with the Belle Epoch, when turned it on the tone changed (which in some senses it’s supposed to, but I had it set as transparent as possible) but I didn’t like a volume bump when the delay went on. Switching it to buffered/preamp always on was great. That was it was a little extra goose into the amp’s input all the time.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Well Josh said not before a fuzz

So tuner
then Fuzz
Then some boost or the Boss DS1

Like in the Op

So any pedal at the end of chain will work?

Surprisingly, the Fuzz Face circuit is affected not just by a buffer in front,but also by one after it.
Turns out that downstream loading can actually be used to tune its sound.
I only recently realized this.

One solution would be to mod the fuzz with a cap to ground.
With true bypass, it can be done in a way that won't affect your tone when the pedal isn't engaged.

 

[ehdwuld]

Hmmmm

 

[LLL]

Don't forget impedance. Just as important. I'll make a new thread.

 

[Securb]

It doesn't matter. Everyone is overthinking this. Just move your pedals around until you get a pleasant sound.

 

[dave74]

My vfe ice-scream has adjustable input impedance,,,,,,,maybe the focus does also come to think of it.

 

[dave74]

It doesn't matter. Everyone is overthinking this. Just move your pedals around until you get a pleasant sound.

Can't beat a common sense approach to these things. I never thought about it either, but I'm also not a fuzz or vintage pedal guy.

 

[GuitarStv]

It doesn't matter. Everyone is overthinking this. Just move your pedals around until you get a pleasant sound.

If guitarists were after a pleasant sound, nobody would own a fuzz pedal.

 

[PFDarkside]

My vfe ice-scream has adjustable input impedance,,,,,,,maybe the focus does also come to think of it.

Put it first in line, get a nice amp tone going where the pedal pushes it into distortion. Try the impedance all the way up and all the way down and roll your volume back in both cases to see how it interacts.

Usually if it’s a high input impedance it’ll be fine anywhere in the chain, the lower impedance will cause more interesting things to occur which could be beneficial or not based on what you want.

 

[PFDarkside]

If guitarists were after a pleasant sound, nobody would own a fuzz pedal.

I posted it above, but when I realized a Fuzz Face was a schmitt trigger things made a lot of sense.