True Bypass VS Buffer

[saladin]

Do you find your tone even needs a buffer? Or are you just trying to make Josh happy? He's in the business of selling pedals.
I play single coil Fenders into Fender amps, there's more than enough "bright" going on that I don't mind a little loss of hi end.
No buffer's for me!

 

[Demanic]

Metalzone doesn't care where you put it in the chain. I have mine in the middle before the clean boost.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[dave74]

I have my Metalzone in the bowels of hell with all knobs pointing straight down! Still an integral part of my chain though, just requires very long cables.

 

[ehdwuld]

I did notice my long cheap braided cables darken the sound a bit
the 20 ft George L cable doesn't do that
But it tangles much quicker than the big cheap braided musicians gear

 

[Mincer]

I did notice my long cheap braided cables darken the sound a bit
the 20 ft George L cable doesn't do that
But it tangles much quicker than the big cheap braided musicians gear

Yeah, the George Ls do sound clean and clear, but they are a mess to deal with if they tangle.

 

[Aceman]

As always - let your EARS be the final judge. After all of this arranging and rearranging to get the correct settings:

- It may all sound the same either way
- It may sound better with the buffers
- It may sound worse

Physics is physics, and sound is sound. Somethings they can be more or less related. YMMV

 

[ehdwuld]

As always - let your EARS be the final judge. After all of this arranging and rearranging to get the correct settings:

- It may all sound the same either way
- It may sound better with the buffers
- It may sound worse

Physics is physics, and sound is sound. Somethings they can be more or less related. YMMV

so you just gonna play the field and not commit to any opinion

"everything is right"

thanks

 

[CaptainWhizz]

What’s your current complete signal path? Which pedals are you using?

EDIT: Aceman wasn’t saying “everything is right”, he was saying that what’s right for one person and their setup is not necessarily right for someone else.

Play the guitar through your pedalboard, but without any pedals on (unless they’re normally always on); then plug the guitar straight into the amp, and see if it sounds better. If it sounds better straight into the amp, you might need a buffer.

 

[ehdwuld]

Thank you
I am aware of how to plug in my gear

I was making a discussion about buffers and and true bypass
This is the title of the thread

I posted the signal path in three posts in this thread

I realize no one reads the title or the whole thread before offering opinions

Thanks again

I like Aces view and i agree that if it sounds good in whatever configuration, it is good.
that does nothing to drive the conversation or topic at all.

Its like asking should i get the brown Toyota or white Ford
And someone saying get the one you like best
hardly informative at all. And although it is technically the right approach
Does nothing for the topic

Doesn't compare the vehicles, or in the case of this thread, the design of the pedal switches

Or like you said just ride a bike

Again thank you for bumping the thread back up
So that someone may see it and offer a worhwhile opinion

 

[dave74]

I for one have noticed some loss in fundamental tone when using too many buffered effects in the path. Starts sounding thinner when you get more than a few IMO.

The common theme of using a couple in the front-end that are strategically-placed is probably the best policy.

If you use the amp's loop and have long cables going to and from then use another buffered model at the beginning and/or at the end of the loop.

Just a hunch here, but I'd bet the cheapo $20 pedals do not have the same buffers as the Boss models. Never compared them myself though.

Waza buffers are improved MIJ versions, and the waza tuner has the buffer/bypass switch so it's very useful beyond just tuning and setting intonation. Great first-in-line pedal.
The waza delay makes a great last-in-line pedal, especially if your amp has reverb.

 

[ehdwuld]

I for one have noticed some loss in fundamental tone when using too many buffered effects in the path. Starts sounding thinner when you get more than a few IMO.

The common theme of using a couple in the front-end that are strategically-placed is probably the best policy.

If you use the amp's loop and have long cables going to and from then use another buffered model at the beginning and/or at the end of the loop.

Just a hunch here, but I'd bet the cheapo $20 pedals do not have the same buffers as the Boss models. Never compared them myself though.

Waza buffers are improved MIJ versions, and the waza tuner has the buffer/bypass switch so it's very useful beyond just tuning and setting intonation. Great first-in-line pedal.
The waza delay makes a great last-in-line pedal, especially if your amp has reverb.

to that end
a Boss noise suppressor which would be end of line in both front and loop would take care of two sections at once

I may need to get one of those just for the buffer

 

[CaptainWhizz]

I posted the signal path in three posts in this thread

I realize no one reads the title or the whole thread before offering opinions

Thanks again

Well, captain sarcasm, I’ve been back though your posts to see what I missed.
You mentioned:
”cables and a ton of pedals”
”a tuner and a fuzz first”
Boss DS-1
”some Behringer reverbs and such I can stick at the end of the line before it hits the front of the amp”
a Biyang Tri Reberb

then in the second post:
an “old script orange phaser”

then in the third post:
”So tuner then fuzz then some boost or the Boss DS-1”

then later:
”long cheap braided cables”
”20ft George L cable”



So, to summarise, your signal path is:

presumably an electric guitar;
a tuner of unknown type;
a fuzz of unknown type;
a Boss DS-1, or possibly “some boost”;
”some Behringer reverbs and such” that you “can” stick in the signal path before the front of the amp, but maybe don’t;
you own a Biyang Tri Reverb that may or may not be part of the rig;
an “old script orange phaser” might perhaps be involved;
“long cheap braided cables” of unknown number and a “20ft George L cable” are probably involved, no mention of patch cables though;
an amp of some kind, with presumably all the pedals in front of it and none in the effects loop (if there is one).

Added to that, we don’t know how much the tone is affected by the signal travelling through all of those pedals and cables (both of indeterminate number) between the guitar and the amplifier, because you “are aware of how to plug in your gear”, even though knowing how much the tone is affected would help people discuss whether or not you needed a buffer, or help other people diagnose whether they might need a buffer, or whether or their tone is fine with the setup they have.

Your original post was about testing whether or not pedals have true bypass or buffers, but you won’t tell us which pedals you’re actually using to let us help you find out if they’re buffered, and you won’t tell us how much your tone is affected by running through your pedals and cables, so we don’t know if you do need any extra buffers or not.
We also don’t know if your tone actually sound worse without buffers (you might find there’s more treble than you want if you add buffers in), and we don’t know which pedals with buffers to suggest, because we don’t actually know which pedals you’re using, what sort of effects you might want to add, which pedals you own but might want to upgrade, etc.

But I guess I must be the one who’s in the wrong by trying to prompt this discussion?

 

[ehdwuld]

Well, captain sarcasm, I’ve been back though your posts to see what I missed.
You mentioned:
”cables and a ton of pedals”
”a tuner and a fuzz first”
Boss DS-1
”some Behringer reverbs and such I can stick at the end of the line before it hits the front of the amp”
a Biyang Tri Reberb

then in the second post:
an “old script orange phaser”

then in the third post:
”So tuner then fuzz then some boost or the Boss DS-1”

then later:
”long cheap braided cables”
”20ft George L cable”



So, to summarise, your signal path is:

presumably an electric guitar;
a tuner of unknown type;
a fuzz of unknown type;
a Boss DS-1, or possibly “some boost”;
”some Behringer reverbs and such” that you “can” stick in the signal path before the front of the amp, but maybe don’t;
you own a Biyang Tri Reverb that may or may not be part of the rig;
an “old script orange phaser” might perhaps be involved;
“long cheap braided cables” of unknown number and a “20ft George L cable” are probably involved, no mention of patch cables though;
an amp of some kind, with presumably all the pedals in front of it and none in the effects loop (if there is one).

Added to that, we don’t know how much the tone is affected by the signal travelling through all of those pedals and cables (both of indeterminate number) between the guitar and the amplifier, because you “are aware of how to plug in your gear”, even though knowing how much the tone is affected would help people discuss whether or not you needed a buffer, or help other people diagnose whether they might need a buffer, or whether or their tone is fine with the setup they have.

Your original post was about testing whether or not pedals have true bypass or buffers, but you won’t tell us which pedals you’re actually using to let us help you find out if they’re buffered, and you won’t tell us how much your tone is affected by running through your pedals and cables, so we don’t know if you do need any extra buffers or not.
We also don’t know if your tone actually sound worse without buffers (you might find there’s more treble than you want if you add buffers in), and we don’t know which pedals with buffers to suggest, because we don’t actually know which pedals you’re using, what sort of effects you might want to add, which pedals you own but might want to upgrade, etc.

But I guess I must be the one who’s in the wrong by trying to prompt this discussion?

thank you for clarifying that
yes you are correct I have an non distinct path with unknown tuners and fuzzes not that it matters as they are before any buffers right

at the moment it is
a twenty 10 foot Chromecast blue cable with a modified silent plug on the guitar side
a Donner mini pedal Tuner
into a Caline snake bite reverb
into a behringer UM300
into the front of the amp

but dude that changes about three times a day
every time I turn the amp on I change the pedals to the pedal of the day

I am trying to develop a pedal order with some consistency

a proper order to put the pedals in so that the chain does not dictate whether the pedal sounds bad or not

some days the pedal o the day sounds great
some days it doesnt
it may be the other pedals on the board that are affecting that
how would I know

thank you for telling me to plug directly into my amp
like I'm an idiot

thank you again for getting butthurt when I take offense to being called an idiot

thank you again for pointing out how much wiser you are than every other idiot on the internet

now lets move on from this and get back on topic

 

[CaptainWhizz]

I’m not sure where I called you an idiot, if you can show me where I did I will apologise.

I didn’t tell you to plug directly in to your amp, I advised you to compare the sound when you plugged your guitar directly into your amp vs when you sent your signal through all of your pedals with them turned off. This is a method that I’ve seen used multiple times to demonstrate the effects of pedals on signal, and to help people decide if they need to add more buffers.

I don’t think someone call tell whether or not they need more buffers if they don’t have a reasonably fixed pedal board.

I’m sure you will ignore what I’m trying to say, perhaps you’d be more open to other people’s words?

https://www.mrblackpedals.com/blogs/straight-jive/6629774-buffers-impedance-and-other-internet-lore

https://www.analogman.com/buffer.htm

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401768

https://www.jhspedals.info/understanding-buffers

That last one from the JHS site contain the following:
”Does your clean tone sound weak through your pedal board compared to going directly into your amp?”

 

[ehdwuld]

thats enough