Truss-Rod Horror | Am I tripping?

[AlexS7320]

Hi, got an old (has Schaller made in w.germany) custom build guitar; dont know who built it or when...
The trussrod was normally adjusted by me, tightening with clockwork motion.
Then the neck bend more backwards, as if string gauge had increased.
If i try counter-clockwise, the nut of the truss-rod comes off...
Is this faulty install?
(The truss rod nut is underneath the neck pickup, pulling it wont work ;-/ )

 

[ICTGoober]

Posting some photos might help us understand what's going on.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Definitely something wrong.

Pics will help.

 

[AlexS7320]

Hello, im a bit confused now; what would you like to have a photo of? I could try to adjust the truss rod and then make a photo of how the neck bends backwards like a banana or when the guitar has too much tension on the strings.
Would you like a photo from the truss rod nut (next to the neck humbucker)?

Imagining installing a truss-rod, if i flip the tross-rod by 180°(circular looking onto the nut) and it is one-way, then i could make the bow that pushes by engaging face in the opposite direction, isn't it?

 

[Robert S.]

I know what you're going through. Gibson uses a 5/16" acorn nut on their truss rod ends. Made in Germany yours may be metric but anyways. I have to assume that your neck is over tightened. The truss rod nut tightens in the same direction as the truss rod pulls away from your string tension. If you had too much relief you would be cranking into the nut threads. If your truss rod is too tight and you back it off, you might break the nut loose from the rod. What you can try is physically push the neck in the direction you want it to go as you turn the truss rod. Putting pressure on the neck will relieve some of the pressure on ypur truss rod, allowing you to crank the truss rod back without spinning the truss rod end. If that doesn't work, try a little teflon tape, reinstall the nut and repeat the above remedy. If all else fails take your baby to the Doctor. A pro will figure it out.

 

[GuitarDoc]

The trussrod was normally adjusted by me, tightening with clockwork motion.
Then the neck bend more backwards, as if string gauge had increased.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. If you increase string gauge the string tension will increase and will tend to bend the neck more forward.

If i try counter-clockwise, the nut of the truss-rod comes off...

That makes it sound like the truss rod is too short for the pocket.
You might want to take the nut off and see if there is another nut underneath (or maybe a washer or several) that you can remove. the pocket may have to be shortened to allow the nut to "grab" more of the threads. If this is something that you are not up to, then you need to take it to a luthier (I mean a REAL luthier, not an amateur tech who claims to be a luthier).

 

[AlexS7320]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. If you increase string gauge the string tension will increase and will tend to bend the neck more forward.​

well, the headstock will bend more forward; yes, thats what i ment.

That makes it sound like the truss rod is too short for the pocket.
You might want to take the nut off and see if there is another nut underneath (or maybe a washer or several) that you can remove. the pocket may have to be shortened to allow the nut to "grab" more of the threads. If this is something that you are not up to, then you need to take it to a luthier (I mean a REAL luthier, not an amateur tech who claims to be a luthier).​

Ill check whats underneath the nut. What i want ot avoid is to remove the fretboard to flip the truss-rod (not start and end of rod, but up and down direction)

What you can try is physically push the neck in the direction you want it to go as you turn the truss rod.

i tried that when the nut was loosened and then the few first rotations of nut, the truss-rod doesnt flip its direction when i apply bending force. after tightening the nut a little bit, bending the neck becomes unthinkable.

I dont quite get the logic yet. Isnt a truss-rod a bi-metal? one side has different properties than the other, and if someone installed the fretboard-pointing side downwards, it should be considered a "monday-build" ? or can truss-rods really flip-flop into opposite direction?

 

[ehdwuld]

Once the neck has bent backwards
tightened nut increases back bow

Let off the nut
Or in your case remove it

Set it in the clamp and block method
Described by Dan earlwine
you tube the video
Of stewmac truss rod adjusting

Force it forward
and string it

Strings will hold it forward

 

[GuitarDoc]

I dont quite get the logic yet. Isnt a truss-rod a bi-metal? one side has different properties than the other, and if someone installed the fretboard-pointing side downwards, it should be considered a "monday-build" ? or can truss-rods really flip-flop into opposite direction?

No, truss rods aren't "bi-metal" in the normally applied sense. They are two pieces of the same metal...a flat piece on top and a round rod on the bottom. They are welded together at one end and have a nut at the other which increases or decreases the tension on the rod relative to the flat bar. This is what causes it to bend. They can't be installed in any position other than how they are supposed to go.

 

[AlexS7320]

I unscrewed the nut and made photos with the camera going into neck pickup cavity.

The method with clamp and blocks still assumes that the truss rod would tighten into back bow (The stew mac video).
so iam sceptical.

I put the nut back on and tried to get backbow by tightening but it still does more relief on tightening.

The bottom part of the truss rod is more forward btw; the nut catches the top part later during screwing on
​​​

 

[GuitarDoc]

So, in those pics the nut has been completely removed?

 

[AlexS7320]

Exactly, this thread made of two pieces is what i screw the nut on

 

[Chistopher]

How old is it and has it been left in a controlled environment? What size strings are on it? With instruments that age, depending on how well they were originally made and how well you have maintained it, it may need to be taken to a luthier to be straightened out, or possibly even replaned

 

[ehdwuld]

Throw that thing in the trash
get one of those $150 Amazon specials

Life is too short to fret over s neck

 

[GuitarDoc]

Would you rather spend your time fretting over a neck, or necking over a fretboard?

 

[ehdwuld]

Some homemade custom guitar by an unknown builder?

Wonky truss rod

Cost more for the repairs than it's worth

Unless it's your grandads old guitar
Toss it

If it is
hang it on th wall and move on

 

[AlexS7320]

Its definitely some kind of monday or left over build but it sound gorgeous.
ive never heard anything like that. Its very hard mahogany and its rather quiet unplugged (sort of inverted to how guitars that pass by me usually are like) but with electronics its chewy and rich.
Ill make some photos, the ebony is to come...
GuitarDoc you asked me whether thats already without the nut. You ddnt commend further after reply.

___
Id rather get a heatgun and remove the fretboard than tossing it ;-//

 

[GuitarDoc]

I'm thinking that it is an old single action truss rod.

I have some questions...
Is it a removeable neck/bolt-on neck, or is it glued-in?
What is the scale length (distance from nut to bridge saddle)?
What is the problem with the neck...what is it you are wanting to do?...(Is the neck permanently bowed forward giving too much string relief and you can't adjust it enough with the truss rod? Or just the opposite, too much back bow making the strings buzz against the frets and you can't adjust the truss rod enough to give more relief?)

 

[GuitarDoc]

Just curious...could you post a pic of the entire guitar so I could see what it looks like.