Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I pre-plan fairly similiar. Less detailed notes on the 'sound' for me and more about which mics I'm PLANNING on using, and the routing of all said hookups. Having your track template all set and done before you walk in saves a ton of time too. Great post Beer$

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I pre-plan fairly similiar. Less detailed notes on the 'sound' for me and more about which mics I'm PLANNING on using, and the routing of all said hookups. Having your track template all set and done before you walk in saves a ton of time too. Great post Beer$

It sure does. You get out what you put in. Thanks man. If you remember, that's the track you credited for having that 'raw but full' sound. 7 months later and I'm still perfectly happy with the result (there's little if anything I would redo) all the physical copies are completely sold out (until we press more) and it measured up to be on the A side of a Nuclear Blast compilation. While you don't have to plan it as meticulously as I do to get professional results, I like to and if you were working for a label or pro studio, they would expect a production plan at least with signal flow, line lists and so on.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

In general, I would say EQ after compression. Otherwise your EQ changes are going to hit your compressor harder or not at all and the compressor is going to undo whatever you were trying to do with the EQ. There are exceptions, to everything, however.

Came here to say ^this^.

In the signal chain, unless you are trying to achieve a certain effect, EQ should come *after* compression. Since compression acts by boosting quiet signals, it will negate what you're doing in the EQ section, and then boost other parts of the signal that were otherwise fine. For example, you scoop the mids a bit, then run it through the compressor, and now your bass is booming.

Bringing in EQ *after* the compression lets you make sure the signal fits nicely in the mix, and that there aren't as many surprises when the signal changes (like on a particularly dynamic guitar part where the mids suddenly jump because you're digging in a bit more).

Personally, I leave multi-band compression to mastering the entire mix, unless there are serious problems with that track in particular.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I think you mean EQ before comp. Low frequencies push the compressor harder than mid and high freqs. EQ'ing first means you can play into the compressor harder.

The differences are subtle, and mostly chicken/egg with the 'what goes first' conundrum.

No I meant what I said.

I tend not to use or recommend eq as a pretreatment for compression on a single sound source. I will use eq on a single source, but avoid compression then. Or I will use compression but only use eq after in that case. I would recommend fixing the sound source before resorting to eq before a compressor.

For me, compression on an individual element is just to reduce the dynamic range relative to other elements so everything is audible. The better the source sound, the less this is necessary.

The exception to compression before eq for me is buss compression where your entire eq'd mix is hitting a master compressor.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Interesting! Any mix samples you can share demonstrating this approach?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Interesting! Any mix samples you can share demonstrating this approach?

I don't know about 'demonstrating' the approach but it's just a pattern of production I settled into. If I were using compression as an effect, eq before would make more sense to me. I use compression mainly to troubleshoot mix issues, which, if done right, you likely won't 'hear' so much in any samples.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

No I meant what I said.

I tend not to use or recommend eq as a pretreatment for compression on a single sound source. I will use eq on a single source, but avoid compression then. Or I will use compression but only use eq after in that case. I would recommend fixing the sound source before resorting to eq before a compressor.

For me, compression on an individual element is just to reduce the dynamic range relative to other elements so everything is audible. The better the source sound, the less this is necessary.

The exception to compression before eq for me is buss compression where your entire eq'd mix is hitting a master compressor.

Like I said. There are no hard and fast rules. EQ after compression will more effectively alter the sound but sometimes I want the compressor to be hit harder by certain frequencies. If I want to get that stable, deep humming sound from a bass using compression, sometimes I will bump up a bell around 50hz before the compressor and then do the 'proper' EQ after the compressor. Sometimes I'll do the same with a snare at 200hz. Depends what the track sounds like and what it needs at the time. It's definitely fair to say EQ before compressor will sound very different to EQ after compression but neither is right or wrong. When I mentioned multiband before, I did mean for premastering. However, it's still not a rule. If you had an otherwise decent heavy guitar sound but not an optimal recording space with bass traps and so on and had low end flying all over the place, a multiband compressor clamping down on just the low end would be perfect for that.

Reducing dynamic range isn't the only thing a compressor can do, that would be a limiter (which yes, a compressor will do set high enough). A compressor can also be used to change the ADSR envelope or add more energy to a track with different attack and release settings.

 

[Swampy]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

I found why my recordings didn't seem quite loud enough, yet still clipped. I bought a Scarlett 2i2 bundle at a pawn shop yesterday for $75, and things are much better now. How I was recording was into my Zoom h4n's XLR. Then I'd take the card out and put it in my computer.

Lot of great info from you guys on the compression/eq thing. Thanks!

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Reducing dynamic range isn't the only thing a compressor can do, that would be a limiter (which yes, a compressor will do set high enough).

Reducing the dynamic range isn't only limiting IME.

If I have an acoustic guitar whose dynamic range spans from -40db to +2db on the VU, and it's mixed with an electric guitar whose dynamic range is reading -20db to +1db on the meter, I may apply a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio of compression on the acoustic at a very low threshold (compressing almost the whole waveform) and give it a few db of make-up gain so that it's low-level details get heard in the mix with the electric. How well that works depends on how transparent the compressor is. Some compressors were made and intended to add color and be more of an effect.

Limiting IME would be slamming the peaks with a higher ratio like 20:1 and at a higher threshold (closer to unity) to keep things at the same peak level, which isn't what I was referring to.

But that's just me.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Trying to get a grasp on the whole compression/eq relationship thing.

Reducing the dynamic range isn't only limiting IME.

If I have an acoustic guitar whose dynamic range spans from -40db to +2db on the VU, and it's mixed with an electric guitar whose dynamic range is reading -20db to +1db on the meter, I may apply a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio of compression on the acoustic at a very low threshold (compressing almost the whole waveform) and give it a few db of make-up gain so that it's low-level details get heard in the mix with the electric. How well that works depends on how transparent the compressor is. Some compressors were made and intended to add color and be more of an effect.

Limiting IME would be slamming the peaks with a higher ratio like 20:1 and at a higher threshold (closer to unity) to keep things at the same peak level, which isn't what I was referring to.

But that's just me.

I just meant that a compressor can be used for applications besides what you described like adding more energy to a percussive instrument or changing the ADSR envelope of a track. Those are the main three and if you aren't aiming to do any of those three (dynamic range, ADSR or velocity/energy) it probably doesn't need a compressor.