Trying to make the Invader work for death metal in SG

[kaza]

This may be a silly question, I know you said you cranked the treble on your amp, but have you cut the bass at all?
Also, the Invader is one of the darkest pickups, maybe it’s just the wrong choice for what you want?

Sure I keep bass pretty low on the amp but fast palm mutted riffs still sound blurry. And even with bass on a half it sounds more bassy then with SH6 with bass on full.

Can you tell us more about your signal chain, amp, speakers, etc... I learned the hard, expensive way when I was a young'un that a great guitar through a great amp into a mediocre cabinet will never be satisfying. Basically, anything in the chain may be giving you issues. The SH6 is a great sounding pickup into most amps for high gain, so surprised that you didn't like it, especially down tuning, it's tight bass should have worked for you, not against you. Pickups will never give you a total tone makeover, they are a small piece of a much bigger puzzle. A different speaker will change your sound much more than a pickup. Just an FYI from someone who has paid a lot ofr experience over the years.

At home I use Laney TI 15-112, it's a pretty decent small tube amp IMO. I use no pedals, just plug and play. https://www.amazon.com/Laney-Amps-TI...ct_top?ie=UTF8
For rehearsals I'm looking to buy a new amp which will suit to this guitar, but only after I'll make it sound as it should through Laney.

You've got thick strings, on a short-scale all-mahogany guitar, drop tuned to C#, with the one Duncan pickup that has the biggest bottom end of any in the lineup... and you are having problems with lows that are too boomy.
I am at a loss. I can't think of any reason the lows would be boomy given that combination.

The neck is maple! I know it's kinda challenge, but also I know KArl Sanders from NIle tuned to drop A with much thicker strings on a 24.75 scale all-mahogany Dean and had success, so with correct setup it shouldn't be a problem.

I would try black winters, plenty of power but more even and defined.

Thanks I'll consider this option

Okay, thank you very much for your advices, so I gonna try to add a capacitor, try a parallel/series mod and maybe a capacitor+1meg volume pot to shift overall tone from bass-mids to mids-highs and then see, maybe Invader is really not for me or at least not for this guitar.

 

[nexion218]

If swapping pups is an option, I'd also take a look at the Nazgûl if you're looking for a tight bass. Keep in mind though that the above mentioned Black Winters are much more versatile. But for riffing away with active-like tightness of bass, the Naz is second to none in my opinion.

 

[AdrianSD]

Don't have experience with drop tuning and 11 strings sets, but I think a cheap SD-1 as clean boost might be a good start. And start with bass from 1, then increase in small increments as you play and listen. Also, keep in mind you'll need mids and presence in a band context.

 

[Adieu]

Adding a cap in series was going to be my suggestion as well. It helped me get a very fat sounding Tone Zone to work in my Strat.

Here’s a page that goes into more detail: https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/mod-squad-muddy-sounding-neck-pickup

Does anyone know what would happen if you replaced the ceramic spacer mags with regular spacers on an Invader? How close would it sound to a Distortion? Can you get some sounds in between the two pickups doing this? Or maybe just replacing one of the spacer mags on the side closest to the neck with a regular spacer might nudge it a little more in that direction?

An Invader with non-magnetic spacers would pretty much be a Duncan Designed HB108b, afaik

 

[kaza]

If swapping pups is an option, I'd also take a look at the Nazgûl if you're looking for a tight bass.

Thanks, I'll take a look. First I wanna try all available mods with Invader, and if if a miracle doesn't happen i'll seek for swap options

Don't have experience with drop tuning and 11 strings sets, but I think a cheap SD-1 as clean boost might be a good start. And start with bass from 1, then increase in small increments as you play and listen. Also, keep in mind you'll need mids and presence in a band context.

I guess using a boost would be too much with this pickup. Have you ever played an Invader-equipped guitar? It has insane amount of output, sometimes seem to be even overpowering. It hits my amp hard as hell while being pretty far from strings

An Invader with non-magnetic spacers would pretty much be a Duncan Designed HB108b, afaik

Does it mean i can make a Detonator out of Invader? I've heard cool things about those pickups, that they're more much clear and less muddy then invaders and sounding aggressive enough at the same time

 

[AdrianSD]

Haven't played an Invader yet. I suggested the SD-1 because in my experience it helps to tighten up the bass, cuts the low freq a fair bit and if you keep the drive on 0 and roll back the volume from max until you find the sweet spot, it might work. This, if you want to keep the Invader. BTW another vote for Black Winter here, I have one and handles high gain very well.

 

[Artie]

Does it mean i can make a Detonator out of Invader? I've heard cool things about those pickups, that they're more much clear and less muddy then invaders and sounding aggressive enough at the same time.

IIRC, there's a couple people here who have done that, and it came out pretty good. Hopefully, one of them will chime in. You could always try it and let us know. Its easily reversible.

 

[kaza]

Could not resist trying this mod right now, since I have no spacers or any material with which I could make them fast, so I used pieces of plastic card



Tone changed a lot!
In terms of clarity/tightness it really became similar to SH6, a huge improvement. Output decreased. I guess it lost maybe 40% of low end. High-end and mids haven't changed a lot to my ears and retained Invader's cool rawness. Overall feel is better to my taste then SH6.
But IMO it still lacks high-end. And maybe i miss a little bit of monstrous slow palm muted chugga chugga which non-modded Invader had. I realize this is a a charge for acquired clarity, but maybe i'd like to have a bit more of Invader's power in these terms, at least for low-end-lacking SG.
Anyway that's a cool mod i think, I'll play for a couple of days with this configuration until i receive 1000K volume pot and caps which i ordered. And then try

1) Modded Invader + 1000k pot
2) Stock Invader + 1000k pot
3) Stock Invader +1000k pot + cap
4) Invader in parallel

 

[jeremy]

cool. its amazing how much change you can get in just a few minutes

 

[devastone]

Maybe you need a boost now? A boost isn't just for output, you can set the drive/dist low, bump the output if necessary, and adjust the tone to taste. Most OD pedals, TS, SD-1, etc... roll off some of the low lows and bump the mids which has the effect of tightening up the tones. That Laney looks like a nice amp and would probably work well with a boost. It's a tried and true recipe since the 80s, everyone is doing it, even the djent'rs with their mega high gain amps.

 

[kaza]

Maybe you need a boost now? A boost isn't just for output, you can set the drive/dist low, bump the output if necessary, and adjust the tone to taste. Most OD pedals, TS, SD-1, etc... roll off some of the low lows and bump the mids which has the effect of tightening up the tones. That Laney looks like a nice amp and would probably work well with a boost. It's a tried and true recipe since the 80s, everyone is doing it, even the djent'rs with their mega high gain amps.

With a mod I've made in post #28 there's actually no need for boost if it would roll off some lows, because the amount of low end is now at it's acceptable minimum. But maybe with non-modded Invader with a cap it can be usable, I'll try it later

 

[LLL]

I have some .1uF resistors I'll make you a good deal on! They're at my beachfront house in Colorado, I'll pick them up next time I'm there.

Now that sounds like a schweet deal.

 

[weepingminotaur]

Hey, it's your time and energy, but you are going to a lot of trouble just to make the Invader work when a Black Winter or Nazgul would solve your problem IMO.

 

[devastone]

With a mod I've made in post #28 there's actually no need for boost if it would roll off some lows, because the amount of low end is now at it's acceptable minimum. But maybe with non-modded Invader with a cap it can be usable, I'll try it later

I was talking about after the mod, boosting is going to be different from changing the pickup.

 

[dave74]

When I hear SG I assume it full mahogany, in which case I'd say just get the Nazgul.
With a maple neck the Invader should be a good match. It's just as Mincer always says,,,"all mids". It's not a boomy lows pickup, but the lower-mids are huge.

The reason I don't like it for full-hog guitars is that it's mag-strength combined with the high dcr make for a compressed attack that sits better in a guitar with a harder more percussive attack, and most full-hogs are the opposite IME.

For an aggressive death metal attack in full-hogs go with a strong ceramic mag and high-output combined with a more modest dcr and an eq with an upper-mids spike.

 

[SweetClyde99]

Could not resist trying this mod right now, since I have no spacers or any material with which I could make them fast, so I used pieces of plastic card

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Tone changed a lot!
In terms of clarity/tightness it really became similar to SH6, a huge improvement. Output decreased. I guess it lost maybe 40% of low end. High-end and mids haven't changed a lot to my ears and retained Invader's cool rawness. Overall feel is better to my taste then SH6.
But IMO it still lacks high-end. And maybe i miss a little bit of monstrous slow palm muted chugga chugga which non-modded Invader had. I realize this is a a charge for acquired clarity, but maybe i'd like to have a bit more of Invader's power in these terms, at least for low-end-lacking SG.
Anyway that's a cool mod i think, I'll play for a couple of days with this configuration until i receive 1000K volume pot and caps which i ordered. And then try

1) Modded Invader + 1000k pot
2) Stock Invader + 1000k pot
3) Stock Invader +1000k pot + cap
4) Invader in parallel

I’d still be interested to see what happened if you put just one of the spacer mags back in—I’d pick the one on the bridge side in the hopes that boosting the output on that side vs. the neck side would help keep it from getting too dark. You might get back a little of what you miss from the stock Invader.