Tube Amps And Personal Style

Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

i'm not offended and you're right, there is a lot of sucky music out there. but you're not getting my point about feel. a sucky player can play with feel. music carries some kind of feeling in every respect. that's the difference between music and noise.

honestly, i think the whole "feeling" or "soul" thing is a cop out for a lot of players who can't get their chops up to speed. they're always complaining about people who don't play with heart because they play too fast or whatever, but that's b.s. in my book. i think it's because their playing is limited in scope that they have to rest on the whole feel player thing.

IN MY OPINION, david gilmour plays with more feel or soul than say larry carlton. others may disagree beause they might not connect with gilmour's music as they might with carlton. therein lies the real debate. in either case, they both play with soul, but whether you connect with them is subjective.

Interesting comparison to make after the previous paragraph, considering Carlton has far greater technical facility than Gilmour, and certainly has a far greater scope to his playing ability, mostly due to his jazz background and extensive session experience. Make no mistake: I've seen Carlton play stuff that would send the average shredhead back to the woodshed for months. So does all the extra chops and versatility make him better in any way? -not as far as I can tell. I like both of them for different reasons. Is Gilmour copping out? -It's hard to believe that's the case from where I sit. I think Gilmour is pretty happy with his playing, which is, after all, only one facet of his overall musical abilities.

Some players who have limited chops do wish they were able to hit some different spots on the fingerboard and maybe blow a little smoke. There may be all kinds of reasons for them not developing their facility further: learning difficulty, lack of discipline, physical issues...

There are also some players who just find fiddly stuff distasteful from day one. And if they have enough facility to express themselves to their desire, that seems just as valid as mastering any crazy chops routine to me.

Then there's players who can really throw out some chops and choose not to. Perhaps they're over hearing the same old shred stuff. Maybe they just don't like widdly guitar. Perhaps they've scaled that mountain and once they got to the top they realised that musicality (ie: soul) is really a whole other issue and they were really not much closer to becoming an original, accomplished, appealing voice on their instrument.

I remember being a teen shredhead and talking a lot about learning all the latest fashionable techniques so I could express myself better. But really much of why I was learning all that stuff was keeping up with the other hot rod guitarists. It took years of not caring about technique for me to develop any real sense of musicality and awareness of musical context. Viewed from this perspective, an overriding interest in chops can be seen as a cop out, where a player arbitralily (and usually in a competitive spirit) assigns some worth to their playing simply on the basis of their ability to play difficult things. When really, they could still be a terribly unmusical player.

It's weird: my chops phase means I'll always be able to figure out how to play something and be able to either do it or know how shed it up to snuff. Which is cool, I guess. But overall, that same chops phase could have been put to much better use working on general musicality.

I think chops players often find themselves confused when listeners and other players don't really respect their command of the instrument or the time it took to get it happening. But the truth is, musicality is the ultimate yardstick for any player, from the most 'primitive' to the most 'advanced'. It's all art, after all, and any approach is valid if a statement can be made. Authors become renowned through writing works that resonate with readers, not because they can type quickly and accurately.
 
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Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

And to answer about the amps/feel/preference thing:

When I was younger, I had a fairly narrow conception of what gear I thought I could use and would work for me. As time has gone on, I've broadened my interests in music and also worked on a wider variety of projects. Nowadays I like all of the tube types, and while not every style can be played on every amp, I tend to be able to get something out of any amp.

I view gear as tools, or colours on a palette. So I like an array of different guitars and at least four tube amps with 6l6, 6V6, EL84 and EL34 power sections. That way I have an ability to play different styles more authentically and also shade my recordings in any direction I wish.

I also tend to subscribe to the 'a decent player will make anything sound good' school. When I play festivals or tour or do session or gear demo work I'm often surprised at what gear I end up having to use. But in the end, I sound like me, for better or worse.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

i think for some people equipment is more important. look at hendrix, clapton, srv, malmsteen, etc... they all use strats and marshalls. i suppose they could have used any kind of equipment, but that must have worked best for them. i think there's a certain feel and responsiveness to certain gear that just works better for some people.

Jimi played through dual showmans and sunns also. SRV used Fenders (Vibroverbs, Bassmans Supers) Dumbles and anything else that was around.

Clapton has played through all these and probably more..

Vox Ac 30
Marshall
Fenders of all sorts
Music man
Soldano

Most players can adapt to different gear.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Jimi played through dual showmans and sunns also. SRV used Fenders (Vibroverbs, Bassmans Supers) Dumbles and anything else that was around.

Clapton has played through all these and probably more..

Vox Ac 30
Marshall
Fenders of all sorts
Music man
Soldano

Most players can adapt to different gear.

i'm not saying anyone can't adapt, but many players are generally known for their signature sound. typically you would associate srv to strat+marshall, or yngwie to strat+marshall, clapton to strat+marshall, etc...

i can adapt to whatever gear i use, but the point is that there is certain gear that agrees with people more. that's my point.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Hmmm, I associate SRV with Strat+Fender before Strat+Marshall.

You make a valid point. At the same time though, there is a common thing between all of them. No matter what they play through, they still sound like themselves. SRV sounded like SRV through Fenders, Marshalls or Dumbles. EVH sounds like EVH no matter if it's a Marshall, Peavey or a Fender (5150 III). Most of that signature sound comes from them. Their gear just adds the spices and fine tunes it.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

i'm not saying anyone can't adapt, but many players are generally known for their signature sound. typically you would associate srv to strat+marshall, or yngwie to strat+marshall, clapton to strat+marshall, etc...

i can adapt to whatever gear i use, but the point is that there is certain gear that agrees with people more. that's my point.


My point is that these players got their signature sounds with different gear.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I have said it before and I will say it again..."Sometimes it isn't the equipment you have, it is how you use it." ;)

+1! I've been getting pretty attached to my amp since I swapped EL34s into it, but since it blew a few weeks ago I had to use a dinky little Danelectro "dirty sweet" 30 watt solid state amp in practice... while put off at first, I just fiddled with it for a while, got a decent sound, and adapted my playing style to make it sound as good as I could.

I never would have thought that a 6 inch Danelectro speaker could sound good playing hard rock with a full band! Moral of the story: everyone needs a Danelectro.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

well if you look at what guitars they use, it's an easier argument to make. for instance, i cannot picture evh with a les paul or clapton with a gibson flying v.

I've got pics of Ed with a Paul and Eric playing Pauls, SG's, 335's firebirds and Explorers. :D
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I have two somewhat distinct voices I like to use while playing, and trying to get both out of one amp has been an exercise in frustration.

Voice 1 sounds like a Les Paul into just about any suitably British sounding amp.... though I lean towards Orange more than Marshall.

Voice 2 sounds like a Les Paul into a Dual Rectifier.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

well if you look at what guitars they use, it's an easier argument to make. for instance, i cannot picture evh with a les paul or clapton with a gibson flying v.

I've got pics of Ed with a Paul and Eric playing Pauls, SG's, 335's firebirds and Explorers. :D

We all associate Ed with the striped Frankenstrat. BUT.... the first VH album was recorded with an Ibanez Destroyer (pre-lawsuit model), not the Frankenstrat. Same with the second album. He actually borrowed a guitar for that record (from Chris Holmes I think). The only parts on the first albums with the Frankenstrat are where there is trem use, and that's not very much. A majority is the Destroyer.

Right there, it shows his signature sound didn't come from his Frankenstrat.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

For me, Clapton is an LP+Marshall guy.

But yeah, I could probably adapt to pretty much anything, I just need to mess with is for a litttle while.They areall just different brushes for different strokes.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

Folks don't associate Billy F. Gibbons with anything other than the LP, but before he got it, he was either a Strat cat, or played a Flying V...usually into Marshalls. Now he plays a Gretsch into a stack of Crates, but I bet more than 99% of the population of the planet wouldn't be able to tell the difference, because, and this is the whole point, what goes into each of these different guitar/amp combinations is still Billy. The guitar/amp didn't make him sound like him, he made the guitar/amps sound like him.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I've got pics of Ed with a Paul and Eric playing Pauls, SG's, 335's firebirds and Explorers. :D

Like this one?

eddie_vanhalen.gif


or this one?

ec_explorer.jpg


I'm sre most of us old-timers have seen photos of Yngwir playing a V too...
 
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Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I feel the same about amps as I do guitars: I don't believe that ONE amp (much less ONE guitar) can do all styles of music.

The amp has perhaps the most difficult job of your gear components; because without it, your audience won't be hearing much of you--no matter how great your guitar is.

I really believe that having different SIZES of amps that can handle different-sized venues is very important, too.

Early in my career, I used a Fender Bandmaster. It was stolen, and I replaced it with a solid state SUNN 212 combo amp. That was a good amp FOR ME--for the clubs I played in, for the material and style I performed. It was solid, reliable--professional.

But when my style of playing changed--I had to change gear. Changing from a solo act to playing in a band; changing the style of music I played; changing from a solo act doing almost 100% rhythm and chord solos to a rhythm/lead guitarist in a two-guitar Hard Rock band, and now to being the ONLY guitarist in a "do it all" G/B/K/D band--WOW, I'm using very little of the same equipment I used 20 years ago.

The journey wasn't that smooth, either. I went through several more Fender amps, Marshalls, Peaveys, etc., until I bought my first Mark III Mesa Boogie Half-Stack. That was the sound I'd been hearing in my head and wanting. I now own five Mesa amps, and I am very happy with the tones I get. But,...

Knowing what I now know, I can also say that if my situation changed--say I went back to playing in a two-guitar band that was doing harder rock than what I do now--yes, I might want a Marshall--or something with a more "aggressive" tone. Perhaps a pedal would do the trick. It would just depend. It's a TOOL, in a very real analogy. When you need a flat-bladed screwdriver, a Phillips tip just won't work.

For now, I am happy...and believe me, I consider myself blessed. I was very lucky to have found MY TONE in the Mesa amps. If you play music for any time at all, eventually you may come to realize that there are a lot of different ways to do things and get great tone. There are a lot of opinionated people out there that will rip you to shreds if you don't do as they say. And most of them are FOS.

The bottom line: You have to learn what works for you, and what doesn't.

Being your own man is one of the hardest things to do in life sometimes--and sometimes it is the ONLY thing worth doing at all.

Good luck,

Bill
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I feel the same about amps as I do guitars: I don't believe that ONE amp (much less ONE guitar) can do all styles of music.

The amp has perhaps the most difficult job of your gear components; because without it, your audience won't be hearing much of you--no matter how great your guitar is.

I really believe that having different SIZES of amps that can handle different-sized venues is very important, too.

Early in my career, I used a Fender Bandmaster. It was stolen, and I replaced it with a solid state SUNN 212 combo amp. That was a good amp FOR ME--for the clubs I played in, for the material and style I performed. It was solid, reliable--professional.

But when my style of playing changed--I had to change gear. Changing from a solo act to playing in a band; changing the style of music I played; changing from a solo act doing almost 100% rhythm and chord solos to a rhythm/lead guitarist in a two-guitar Hard Rock band, and now to being the ONLY guitarist in a "do it all" G/B/K/D band--WOW, I'm using very little of the same equipment I used 20 years ago.

The journey wasn't that smooth, either. I went through several more Fender amps, Marshalls, Peaveys, etc., until I bought my first Mark III Mesa Boogie Half-Stack. That was the sound I'd been hearing in my head and wanting. I now own five Mesa amps, and I am very happy with the tones I get. But,...

Knowing what I now know, I can also say that if my situation changed--say I went back to playing in a two-guitar band that was doing harder rock than what I do now--yes, I might want a Marshall--or something with a more "aggressive" tone. Perhaps a pedal would do the trick. It would just depend. It's a TOOL, in a very real analogy. When you need a flat-bladed screwdriver, a Phillips tip just won't work.

For now, I am happy...and believe me, I consider myself blessed. I was very lucky to have found MY TONE in the Mesa amps. If you play music for any time at all, eventually you may come to realize that there are a lot of different ways to do things and get great tone. There are a lot of opinionated people out there that will rip you to shreds if you don't do as they say. And most of them are FOS.

The bottom line: You have to learn what works for you, and what doesn't.

Being your own man is one of the hardest things to do in life sometimes--and sometimes it is the ONLY thing worth doing at all.

Good luck,

Bill

well spoken bill, thanks
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

The tone I'm after in my head is a Marshall tone too. All my fav guitar players played thru a Marshall so buying a Marshall amp was only natural.

There are times I'm not happy with my tone, and times when I'm absolutely in tone heaven. I think it mostly depends on the right settings and my playing. Which all boils down to knowing your gear, working within its abilities, and the tone from your fingers.
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

I'm gonna try answering this question a little differently than everyone else. I'm gonna say that my personal sound is not directly effected by what type of gear I play but the type of tone that I'm trying to create. My personal sound is not a cranked BF Fender even though thats what I prefer to play because I could do just as well with any little 40Watt 6L6 combo. Now saying that, I couldn't do squat with a Marshall or a Mesa. I'm not a mid to high gain player. But if I was a high gain type guy I wouldn't be able to perform on anything lower. It's not about amp models or brands its about the tonal categories like:

clean
overdriven
low gain
high-gain

All of you are trying to relate your sound to a certain brand and model of amp and thats dumb because I know most of you are better than that. The fact is, I'm a clean and/or over driven guy. I could hold my own on anything from BF fenders, tweeds, AC30s, Oranges, or whatever with equal confidence and ability. But once I go into the higher gain categories I'm screwed. The music I play was NOT meant to be played through a Uberschall (spellcheck?).
 
Re: Tube Amps And Personal Style

My lead sound doesn't changes much with different amps....My guitar and my hands tend to create similar sounds on the same gain level..
But for the Rythm part ,i need a tight sound...Without tightness ,my playing is lost..All the small detail on my riffing needs tight distortion..And i can't get it with any Recto type amp....And the midds of the Marshall JCM series are really not fiting to my needs.Maybe the new Kerry King model..But i couldn't test it yet!

That's why i am looking at Engl and Diezel...They give me Midi to get any sound in any moment ,Tight and agressive sound with lot's of definition and uniqueness...

I prefer 6L and KT8 tubes for that...And i think 6L6 tubes sound better clean...
 
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