Tube Help

[guitarkid]

Hey guys,

I've going to be putting some new tubes in my early 90's reissue DRRI and 59 Bassman, to replace the stock (GT and Fender label) tubes that are about 20 years old. I've read so many mixed reviews on tubes that I am having a hard time deciding which tubes to get or try out. I would rather just go with new production tubes. I know that NOS stuff is great, but its also alot more pricey, and I don't want to spend an arm and a leg retubing these amps.

The Bassman RI already has a new rectifier tube and V1 preamp tube (thinking about also trying out a 5751 in v1 though), so I am just needing to get 2 power tubes for it and the other 2 preamps for V2 and V3. The DRRI will need a full new set of tubes though. Any suggestions on what you guys would recommend to try in the amps? Also, where would be a good place to buy purchase the tube? I have bought some from the Tube Depot recently, but I didn't know if there were better places online to purchase them online. I saw some pre-packaged tube kits for these amps on ebay, but I wasn't sure of the quality either.

 

[Jay 77]

Re: Tube Help

The guys at thetubestore.com are really helpful and the pricing is decent.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Tube Help

V1, v2 and v4 are the ones that color your sound the most.
EH sounds pretty balanced to me and I like the price. JJs have a little less presence and it feels like a bit more headroom. Tung sols sound like EH to me but maybe a little less noisey.

v3 is a reverb 12at7 and doesn't really color tone or need to be matched but you can ask for low noise. I got an EH.

v5 can be any 12ax7 that works.

v6 is the pi and I haven't messed much with brands here but the strength of the tube will make small differences in how crunchy your amp gets. I just use the stock groove ttubes 12At7 tube but I bought a sovtek LPS to try out. I've also used a GE 12AT7 but it became a little noisey after a while.


For the 6V6 i've used ruby tubes and the stock goove tubes and I switched to tung sols when I retubed it. The tung sols are clear and crunchy and have a good midrange and so far are a winner. I've compared EH to tungsol in other amps and EH is a little smoother and muddier, and JJ 6V6s are supposed to sound a little more like 6l6 but i just thought they sounded like low breakup EH.

As long as the rectifier works you're fine. They don't color the sound AFAIK.
vintage rectifiers are usually about $100 to $150 but I hear that ones in new conditon generally have very long service lives and may outlive enough sovteks to make it worth the price over say 5 years or more... something to think about

I've had some vintage glass in v2 and v4 and I like the results, and they often have a little smoother midrange that may be what you like... I have a few japanese tubes that just don't sound as nasal as newer stuff...

also, thetubedepot.com and thetubestore.com have both been good to me, and ebay can be a great place to find goodies like Baldwin organ 12ax7s

 

[CTN]

Re: Tube Help

as far as regular 12ax7s,

Tung Sol and Mullards for evenness, depth and clarity
EHX for crispness
JJs for roundness/darkness
Sovteks for balance and gain without as much depth and clarity
Chinese for if none of the european tubes grab you.

Stuff I haven't tried: EI, RFT, TAD

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Tube Help

For any phase inverter slot, I'd recommend a NOS JAN-Philips 12AT7. I love the way mine sounds in my Bassman. The Tube Store has them for $12.95

I can also recommend the Svetlana 12AX7 for Fender amps. The one in my Bassman that powers the Normal channel got too noisy, so I ordered another one to replace it, and a Tung Sol for comparison. While I waited for my tubes, I used the tube that was in the Bass channel - a Sovtek 12AX7.

Out of the three, the Svetlana was the clear winner. A fuller low end, present midrange without being overbearing for a Blackface Fender, and the classic Fender sparkle in the highs. A wonderful tube by all means.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Tube Help

I think C2N's post is very good, but I disagree with a couple things.

First of all, don't buy a lot of JJ's. If you like them, get more, but they're by far my least favorite current production tube. I just can't get along with them. And maybe that's not fair, because the long-plate ECC803S is a pretty decent tube. But the short-plate ECC83S, I just despise. Some people like them, but don't spend a whole lot of money on a whole set before you hear what one does for you.

The only other thing I would say is that some of the Chinese tubes are really fantastic. My favorite tube is the Tung-Sol, but when I put a Tung-Sol in the second drive spot in my amp, it became noisy after a short while. I had the same thing happen a second time, so I decided I needed a sturdier tube. This is where the long-plate JJ worked all right, but it had nothing on a good Chinese tube. For the record, this is the one I'm talking about.

There is a lot of rebranding going on with the Chinese stuff, so if you're going to get one, go with one that works. I've seen glassman recommend the specific one I pointed out as well, and I'd take his advice any time. As for the tone, it's very full and deep. I was floored by how much thicker and clearer the bass sounded. I didn't expect a preamp tube to do that at all. It made a giant difference.

But it's all subject to your taste and what you want. If you want to kill your highs, run JJs straight through. If you want clarity in your first spot and to tweak after that, I recommend the Tung-Sol first. It's an addictive habit. Good luck.

 

[guitarkid]

Re: Tube Help

Well thanks so much for all of the help and suggestions guys!! After reading all of your suggestion and doing a lot of research on some of the tube websites, I think I have decide what tubes I am going to try out...

For the 59 Bassman, I think I am just going to go with a full set of JJ's, since it is a brighter amp. I already have a new JJ rectifier and an EH 12AY7 in the V1 slot, but I am going to try a different tube in the V1 slot too. So the tubes I am getting for it will be a set of JJ 6L6GC's for the power section, JJ 5751 for V1, and just a JJ EC883/12AX7 for V2 and V3.

For the DRRI, I'll be putting a JJ 5AR4 rectifier in it (the stock Ruby rattles a bit), Tung-Sol 12AX7s for V1, V2, and V4, JAN-Phillips 12AT7WCs for V3 and V6, and I have not decided whether to go with Tung-Sols or JJ's for the power section yet... Also, do I need to worry about getting matched sections for the preamp tube?

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Tube Help

no I wouldn't worry about matched sections anywhere

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Tube Help

Re; the power section in your deluxe:
jj 6v6's behave differently to regular 6v6s. They have more headroom and low end. They sound more like a smaller 6l6 or a 6v6 on steroids than a regular 6v6.
I like it in 22watt fenders...even tho tung sols sound really good too. Tung sols have less low end and break up much earlier, so if you really want that low wattage sound, then go for them, but if you feel you need more headroom and beef then get the jj's.

Jjs all the way thru is a good idea for your bassman. They will smooth out the top end and give a fat low end to feed those (fairly bright) 10 inch speakers.

Its cool that you are getting tung sols for your deluxe too. They are somewhat clearer and brighter than the jj's, so you have chosen well.
If it turns out that a tung sol in v1 is too bright, then just steal one of the jj's from your bassman. If you want more top end from your bassman, then steal a tung sol!
V1 has the biggest impact on your tone shape, so its good you will have both at your disposal. the other slots have less bearing on your tone, so mixing and matching is less important in there.
Philips AT7s are good and reliable, but if you do decide to go for new production, the EH seem to be the beefiest and most reliable in my experience (i have blown up jjs and tungsols) but that might just be me so dont take it as gospel.

Have fun!

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Tube Help

Listen to this guy. He knows what he is talking about.

Let me just add a suggestion: JJ ECC803s... (not 83s, it's not a type-o)

I kinda find JJECC83s a bit too dull you know. Too 2 dimensional. Not deep... whatever. Them 803s valves are much better I would say. And they cost sorta the same. And reliable, as reliable as JJECC83s.

B

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Tube Help

Re; the power section in your deluxe:
jj 6v6's behave differently to regular 6v6s. They have more headroom and low end. They sound more like a smaller 6l6 or a 6v6 on steroids than a regular 6v6.
I like it in 22watt fenders...even tho tung sols sound really good too. Tung sols have less low end and break up much earlier, so if you really want that low wattage sound, then go for them, but if you feel you need more headroom and beef then get the jj's.

Jjs all the way thru is a good idea for your bassman. They will smooth out the top end and give a fat low end to feed those (fairly bright) 10 inch speakers.

Its cool that you are getting tung sols for your deluxe too. They are somewhat clearer and brighter than the jj's, so you have chosen well.
If it turns out that a tung sol in v1 is too bright, then just steal one of the jj's from your bassman. If you want more top end from your bassman, then steal a tung sol!
V1 has the biggest impact on your tone shape, so its good you will have both at your disposal. the other slots have less bearing on your tone, so mixing and matching is less important in there.
Philips AT7s are good and reliable, but if you do decide to go for new production, the EH seem to be the beefiest and most reliable in my experience (i have blown up jjs and tungsols) but that might just be me so dont take it as gospel.

Have fun!

Now a question... This is to be used in a 5E3 clone that I am building.

What if I want sorta them TungSol 6V6s but with added low end?

Frankly speaking, I think JJ 6V6's are not 6V6s, but as you say small 6L6's. They don't "sound" like 6V6s you know. But still I prefer their low end, yet would rather have TungSol's...

Any suggestions? NOS stuff, I find, too pricey you know. I'd rather buy trannies and build amps.



B

 

[guitarkid]

Re: Tube Help

no I wouldn't worry about matched sections anywhere

Alright cool

Re; the power section in your deluxe:
jj 6v6's behave differently to regular 6v6s. They have more headroom and low end. They sound more like a smaller 6l6 or a 6v6 on steroids than a regular 6v6.
I like it in 22watt fenders...even tho tung sols sound really good too. Tung sols have less low end and break up much earlier, so if you really want that low wattage sound, then go for them, but if you feel you need more headroom and beef then get the jj's.

Jjs all the way thru is a good idea for your bassman. They will smooth out the top end and give a fat low end to feed those (fairly bright) 10 inch speakers.

Its cool that you are getting tung sols for your deluxe too. They are somewhat clearer and brighter than the jj's, so you have chosen well.
If it turns out that a tung sol in v1 is too bright, then just steal one of the jj's from your bassman. If you want more top end from your bassman, then steal a tung sol!
V1 has the biggest impact on your tone shape, so its good you will have both at your disposal. the other slots have less bearing on your tone, so mixing and matching is less important in there.
Philips AT7s are good and reliable, but if you do decide to go for new production, the EH seem to be the beefiest and most reliable in my experience (i have blown up jjs and tungsols) but that might just be me so dont take it as gospel.

Have fun!

Awesome. Thanks for the info! I will think that over and decide whether to get the Tung-Sol's or the JJ's. I also forgot to mention that I am going to stick a JJ 12AX7 in the V5 position on the DRRI, since it doesn't really effect the tone. That way I can swap it out with one of the Tung-Sol's if I want to try something different, like you said.

Listen to this guy. He knows what he is talking about.

Let me just add a suggestion: JJ ECC803s... (not 83s, it's not a type-o)

I kinda find JJECC83s a bit too dull you know. Too 2 dimensional. Not deep... whatever. Them 803s valves are much better I would say. And they cost sorta the same. And reliable, as reliable as JJECC83s.

B

Yeah, I was actually planning to get those instead of the regular 83's but then I read this on one of the tube sites, about the 803...

"Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is susceptible to excessive microphonics and is therefore not recommended for use in combo amps or high gain stages. For these amps the JJ ECC83-S is a better choice."

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tube Help

I hate JJ tubes for the most part so my suggestions will differ a bit...

I'd say reissue Tung Sol 5881's for the Bassman and Tung Sol 6V6's for the DRRI.

Preamp tubes...I like the reissue Tung Sol's, I like the EH 12AX7 and 12AT7's. The new Svetlana 12AX7's are nice too for the price...they are low noise, lower gain than the Ting Sols and are less bright. Sovtek makes a good 5751 thats worth bringing up here if thats your thing.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tube Help

Now a question... This is to be used in a 5E3 clone that I am building.

What if I want sorta them TungSol 6V6s but with added low end?

Frankly speaking, I think JJ 6V6's are not 6V6s, but as you say small 6L6's. They don't "sound" like 6V6s you know. But still I prefer their low end, yet would rather have TungSol's...

Any suggestions? NOS stuff, I find, too pricey you know. I'd rather buy trannies and build amps.



B

B,

I don't know of any true 6V6's with a real big low end...

The JJ 6V6 is really like a 7591 which is sort of a 6L6 stuffed into a 6V6 bottle...Ampeg used these a lot back in the 70's.

It's cool in the regard that they can take a LOT Of voltage but they loose the sweet compression and signature midrange of a real 6V6...

It's a give and take...personally I'd give up the bigger low end for the nice midrange and compression.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Tube Help

B,

I don't know of any true 6V6's with a real big low end...

The JJ 6V6 is really like a 7591 which is sort of a 6L6 stuffed into a 6V6 bottle...Ampeg used these a lot back in the 70's.

It's cool in the regard that they can take a LOT Of voltage but they loose the sweet compression and signature midrange of a real 6V6...

It's a give and take...personally I'd give up the bigger low end for the nice midrange and compression.

That's exactly how I feel...

I guess I'd rather not sacrifice the "real 6V6" tone, but the low end...

B :cool2:

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Tube Help

Doc Barlo...sounds like tung sols are the way to go for you...but what speaker are you planning on using? That might be a good way to get the extra bottom and still have the cool vintage feel you want. An efficient speaker with a smooth sounding flexible cone....a.la the cannabis rex by any chance?

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Tube Help

The thing would be a head unit. And am gonna be using a G12H30 Anni. version (75Hz). I also have a (new) Jensen C12N, that I might try.

BTW, unless you guys lead me otherwise, my current choice is TungSol 6V6's...

B

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Tube Help

Just make sure you have a decent AY7 for your Bassman.
good luck

 

[guitarkid]

Re: Tube Help

I hate JJ tubes for the most part so my suggestions will differ a bit...

I'd say reissue Tung Sol 5881's for the Bassman and Tung Sol 6V6's for the DRRI.

Preamp tubes...I like the reissue Tung Sol's, I like the EH 12AX7 and 12AT7's. The new Svetlana 12AX7's are nice too for the price...they are low noise, lower gain than the Ting Sols and are less bright. Sovtek makes a good 5751 thats worth bringing up here if thats your thing.

Well the only problem that I have found with running the Tung-Sol 5881's in the 59 Basman RI's, is that these reissues have a higher plate voltage at 450v and up and the 5881's are only rated for up to 400v. I've read several stories of people running them in there 59 RI's and they either burn out really quick or blow up.

I will check out the other preamp tubes you mentioned though. And I actually have decided to go with the Tung-Sol 6v6's for the DRRI. Thanks for the suggestions man!

Just make sure you have a decent AY7 for your Bassman.
good luck

Yeah, I actually have a 12AY7 in the V1 position of it now. I might take it out though, because I have read that the 1/4w plate resistors in V1 can't handle a 12AY7 and it could possibly blow the resistor, over time. I've heard that its best to put a 1/2w plate resistors in place of the 1/4w. I'm not 100% sure on everything though, and I don't want to take a chance at damaging my amp. Thats why I am going to try a good 5751 in the V1 slot.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tube Help

Well the only problem that I have found with running the Tung-Sol 5881's in the 59 Basman RI's, is that these reissues have a higher plate voltage at 450v and up and the 5881's are only rated for up to 400v. I've read several stories of people running them in there 59 RI's and they either burn out really quick or blow up.

I will check out the other preamp tubes you mentioned though. And I actually have decided to go with the Tung-Sol 6v6's for the DRRI. Thanks for the suggestions man!

Yeah, I actually have a 12AY7 in the V1 position of it now. I might take it out though, because I have read that the 1/4w plate resistors in V1 can't handle a 12AY7 and it could possibly blow the resistor, over time. I've heard that its best to put a 1/2w plate resistors in place of the 1/4w. I'm not 100% sure on everything though, and I don't want to take a chance at damaging my amp. Thats why I am going to try a good 5751 in the V1 slot.

Who said the TS 5881 reissues will only take 400 volts???