Tube or Modeling Amp?

[beaubrummels]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

I’m getting back into guitar and got a VT20X VOX modeling amp for jamming in the bonus room. I like the versatility of the modeling amp and the variety of pre configured vintage amp tones that I can tweak.

I’m looking to add a 2nd amp and considering a Marshall Tube amp or a larger modeling amp. Which would be the better choice for tone?


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Neither is really better for tone. The difference is response. Tube amps, IME, allow digging in with the hands to change the sound and get grit and distortion without signficant volume change - due to the nature of how tubes clip, they have a natural compression to them. All my emulations/modellers have just as good a tone, but they don't clean up the same when you back off with your hands and I have to use multiple patches to do what one tube amp channel can do, and I often have to add compressors and noise gates to get it to behave like a real amp.

The only tone differenve I've experienced is modelers don't have the same punch through the speakers as a tube amp. My tube amps I can feel thump my gut even at lower volumes, while all my modelers just sounds like a really nice recording of a really nice amp. Still fun to play, but slightly different experience.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Neither is really better for tone. The difference is response. Tube amps, IME, allow digging in with the hands to change the sound and get grit and distortion without signficant volume change - due to the nature of how tubes clip, they have a natural compression to them. All my emulations/modellers have just as good a tone, but they don't clean up the same when you back off with your hands and I have to use multiple patches to do what one tube amp channel can do, and I often have to add compressors and noise gates to get it to behave like a real amp.

The only tone differenve I've experienced is modelers don't have the same punch through the speakers as a tube amp. My tube amps I can feel thump my gut even at lower volumes, while all my modelers just sounds like a really nice recording of a really nice amp. Still fun to play, but slightly different experience.

You're partially right: If you use a lot of volume dynamics in your playing, like I do, that definitely affects your tone as well. You can't get that smooth distorion to clean shift and variance without tubeamp-like response. And that is part of guitar "tone".

 

[Mincer]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Stevie B's had one for the longest time. Almost got it.

I hadn't been in there lately. I gotta go sometime.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Tube or analog SS all the way. Nothing wrong with the way digital modelling stuff sounds nowadays, but it's just way too fiddly..

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Neither is really better for tone. The difference is response. Tube amps, IME, allow digging in with the hands to change the sound and get grit and distortion without signficant volume change - due to the nature of how tubes clip, they have a natural compression to them. All my emulations/modellers have just as good a tone, but they don't clean up the same when you back off with your hands and I have to use multiple patches to do what one tube amp channel can do, and I often have to add compressors and noise gates to get it to behave like a real amp.

The only tone differenve I've experienced is modelers don't have the same punch through the speakers as a tube amp. My tube amps I can feel thump my gut even at lower volumes, while all my modelers just sounds like a really nice recording of a really nice amp. Still fun to play, but slightly different experience.

You're partially right: If you use a lot of volume dynamics in your playing, like I do, that definitely affects your tone as well. You can't get that smooth distorion to clean shift and variance without tubeamp-like response. And that is part of guitar "tone".

Often true, but I've found the Roland Blues Cube Hot to provide these tube characteristics. They're not exactly a modeling amp, however, by some people's definition.

 

[darth_tar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Blackstar ID 60 modeling amp. I get compliments all the time on my sound and it is very loud, can't use it at full volume yet! Used for all my gigs. Just my two cents.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

The complaint that digital things fail or become obsolete shouldn’t be a concern if your digital amp costs less than your iPhone...which will one day fail or soon become obsolete too.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Blackstar ID 60 modeling amp. I get compliments all the time on my sound and it is very loud, can't use it at full volume yet! Used for all my gigs. Just my two cents.

A friend of mine has that amp. It does in fact sound very good. And very tube-like.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

I get more compliments on my sound when I gig with my Mustang III than I do when I gig with ‘66 Deluxe Reverb.

 

[evan47]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

I would take a good modelling amp over tubes any day of the week.
Modellers are generally more versatile, have less background noise, sound great at any volume level and have much better reliability than tube amps.
Weight, price and servicing costs of valve amps are big drawbacks too.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

So, you wanna trade for another one. I got a Mustang right here, what you think?

 

[PS412]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Have a Katana head, have a tube head. Like them both.
However this seems like a whole lot of good ideas at once.

 

[justFred]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

If the modeling amp models tube amps why not just get a tube amp to begin with?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

If the modeling amp models tube amps why not just get a tube amp to begin with?

What’s great is not that they can duplicate the sound of vintage tube amps.

It’s that finally, if you’re willing to learn how to, you can create those elusive sounds you’ve heard only in your imagination.

Of course taking advantage of this would require an imagination.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

I'm still not sure why the modelling/tube hybrid idea hasn't gotten more traction.
I suppose it's due to the hidebound nature, excuse me, respect for tradition, that most guitarists seem to be possessed by.

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[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

I'm still not sure why the modelling/tube hybrid idea hasn't gotten more traction.
I suppose it's due to the hidebound nature, excuse me, respect for tradition, that most guitarists seem to be possessed by.

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I think it’s that and the work you have to put into sorting through all the parameters, cabinet models, useless effects, useless amp models, etc.

For example, on my Mustang 3, the only Fender amp models I use are Fender Twin, Deluxe Reverb and Tweed Deluxe.

The only Distortion pedals I use are the Green Box and Fender Overdrive. I only use the Tape Echo and Fender Reverb.

There are plenty of delays and Reverbs and overdrives and distortion models to choose from, but those I listed are the only ones I use for creating my own presets. Now that I know that, its much simpler for me.

And I can use my own presets as my starting point instead of going through the laborious learning curve of working with the amp models that just don’t interest me.

I can get my idea of the ultimate Marshall, not by using the Marshall models but by overdriving the 20 watt Fender models. Which is what I do in real life with my tube amps too.

It’s really no harder than setting up a new iPhone and you’d think if an old geezer like me can do it, it should be a breeze for the youngsters who grew up with computers.

In truth, for me it’s been a journey of eliminating the 90% I have no use for and simplifying. Then I can go straight to the sounds I like.

But at first, modeling technology is a bit overwhelming.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

It can be overwhelming. But Line 6 got together with Bogner and put out a hybrid, but it didn't do particularly well on the market, maybe due to reliability issues. But they were the only ones. Just surprised that say, Fractal doesn't get together with Egnator, or something like that.

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[justFred]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Of course taking advantage of this would require an imagination.

Got it, maybe. I have a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe (I love the sound of that amp). You fiddle with the whatevers on your modeler and with imagination have an amp that sounds like a tweed deluxe. If I want a Vox AC30 sound I'm SOL but you don't need an AC30 all you have to do is fiddle with the gizzmos on the modeler and your imagination creates an AC 30...or something like that, right?:boggled:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

Got it, maybe. I have a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe (I love the sound of that amp). You fiddle with the whatevers on your modeler and with imagination have an amp that sounds like a tweed deluxe. If I want a Vox AC30 sound I'm SOL but you don't need an AC30 all you have to do is fiddle with the gizzmos on the modeler and your imagination creates an AC 30...or something like that, right?:boggled:

What I meant is that with a modeler you can create your own sounds. Not just someone else’s sound, but sounds that have existed only in your imagination. Maybe it’s an idealized Marshall tone that no real Marshall has. You can create that sound with a modeler and one of the overdrive emulations...and in my case, it came from the 5e3 model of all things. Not any of the Marshall emulations.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Tube or Modeling Amp?

For me, the problem with the digital world is the endless menus.
I’ve never owned or fiddles with these newer modeling amps but I have played through one at GC. It sounded pretty good, I won’t lie. But I can never find the right settings etc...it’s just too much of a hassle for me. And even though there have been significant improvements lately, the digital OD and distortion sounds still aren’t good enough in most cases.