tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

[matt99camero]

I own a Hot Rod Deluxe, 40 watt tube. Somone told me that my 40 watts tube is about equal to 100 watts solid state. I jammed recently with someone with a 120 watt Crate (GLX plus series I think) and his amp could hardly keep up with mine. So how many tubes watts equals solid state watts?

 

[some_dude]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

100w tube = 100w solid state.

The difference is in the break up patterens. When tubes break up, they're more harmonically rich, and sound very loud. When solid state breaks up, it tends to thin out more and more the louder it gets.

Personally, I wouldn't gig a ss amp under 350-400w. The reason being, if I'm going to gig a ss amp, I want to rely entirely on the preamp/stompboxes for distortion, so I don't want my power amp to break up at all (zero distortion). So instead of running a 100w amp at 9 to keep up with your 40w tube amp, I'd run a 400w amp at 5, or an 800w at 3.......

 

[flank]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

genreally tube is around 3x as loud for the same wattage....... so his amp should have been about equally as loud....... so i dont what the deal is? you both were the same volume?

 

[matt99camero]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

So actually even though I'm 80 watts below the solid state mine will actually be lounder. So a tube watt is actually more than a solid state watt due only to the breakup pattern, without it they would be equal. And I can see your point about the SS amps.

 

[MikeS]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Watts are watts. The volume "difference" is a perceived difference. If you were to measure the actual volume a 50 watt ss and a 50 watt tube, all other things being equal, they should be pretty dead nuts equal. Maybe not perfectly equal, but close.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

100w tube = 100w solid state.

The difference is in the break up patterens. When tubes break up, they're more harmonically rich, and sound very loud. When solid state breaks up, it tends to thin out more and more the louder it gets.

Personally, I wouldn't gig a ss amp under 350-400w. The reason being, if I'm going to gig a ss amp, I want to rely entirely on the preamp/stompboxes for distortion, so I don't want my power amp to break up at all (zero distortion). So instead of running a 100w amp at 9 to keep up with your 40w tube amp, I'd run a 400w amp at 5, or an 800w at 3.......

Plus when combined with various eq, and speaker sensitivities (SPL), a 3dB difference combined with a speaker's emphasis on certain frequency ranges can be quite a difference. Tubes tend to produce harmonics that get added into the signal, even before we hear it as distortion, and they tend to compress a bit, this all leads to a kind dynamic enhancement, a fuller sound. Many people stated that a tube amp simply sounds louder than a S.S., although that really subjective and equipment specific (speakers and cabinets), it does appear to be a widely held perception. I feel that anything that enhances the harmonics that way will be perceived as being a bit louder to the human ear.

 

[texasguitarslinger]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Watts are watts. The volume "difference" is a perceived difference. If you were to measure the actual volume a 50 watt ss and a 50 watt tube, all other things being equal, they should be pretty dead nuts equal. Maybe not perfectly equal, but close.

Using high end technical terms like "dead nuts equal" always throws me off, try speaking for the layman once in awhile ... jeez... :laugh2:

 

[sanrafael]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Watts are watts, but there are two things to keep in mind. A tube amp is usually rated at a particular distortion level, and will continue to put out somewhat more power beyond that level; and that is how you are probably using it. A transistor amp has low distortion until it hits its head. It is usually rated right at that power, and you get no more.

The second thing is the distortion. Suppose you have a 40 watt tube amp and you are playing clean, but near the maximum clean level. There is probably a lot of distortion on picking transients, but it is just part of the sound, and you do not really think of it as distortion. If you play a 40 watt transistor amp at the same apparent level, you will probably hear the distortion a lot more; it has a very different sound.

Some transistor amps have "better" distortion than others, but I think that the consenus is, if you want to do the distortion in the amp, tubes are better. You can do the distorion in effects boxes and keep a powerful ss amp clean, as Screamingdaisy said above. Not everyone likes to do this, but I think effects boxes will continue to get better, and eventually nearly eveyone will.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

I had been using a Crest LA901 power amp (anyone want to buy it? hehe), which is like much power. Think 250 or 300 wats per side. But I wanted a tube sound so I bought a Mesa 50/50 power amp. Its one of the older models with the low power switch which brings it down to 15 watts. I will tell you at 15 watts the thing is INSANELY loud. like I can barely put it past 6 or 7. At full power its more than you'd ever need for any type of gig or show. (unless your like in a stadium un-miked hehe) I guess what I'm saying is that I've noticed 0 drop off in power going from the Crest, which was solid state and rated at a higher power rating, to the Mesa which is tube and rated at a lower power rating. I also have noticed that the more I turn it up ( I believe I've gone to like 8 or 9 with the 15watt on), it sounds, heavier, and "fuller", just like folks are saying here. I like it!

 

[Nightburst]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

100w tube = 100w solid state.

The difference is in the break up patterens. When tubes break up, they're more harmonically rich, and sound very loud. When solid state breaks up, it tends to thin out more and more the louder it gets.

Personally, I wouldn't gig a ss amp under 350-400w. The reason being, if I'm going to gig a ss amp, I want to rely entirely on the preamp/stompboxes for distortion, so I don't want my power amp to break up at all (zero distortion). So instead of running a 100w amp at 9 to keep up with your 40w tube amp, I'd run a 400w amp at 5, or an 800w at 3.......

One time I gigged with a 100 SS head on top of a 4x12 (Randall). In a small sized venue capable of 200 people with 80 present some people in the crowd came up to me and asked if I could turn it a bit down a bit because I was too loud. The master volume was on 2...

 

[Hoss]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Using high end technical terms like "dead nuts equal" always throws me off, try speaking for the layman once in awhile ... jeez... :laugh2:

tube watts sound "fuller" than SS watts at the same volume... :22: :laugh2:

 

[Kent S.]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

I had been using a Crest LA901 power amp (anyone want to buy it? hehe), which is like much power. Think 250 or 300 wats per side. But I wanted a tube sound so I bought a Mesa 50/50 power amp. Its one of the older models with the low power switch which brings it down to 15 watts. I will tell you at 15 watts the thing is INSANELY loud. like I can barely put it past 6 or 7. At full power its more than you'd ever need for any type of gig or show. (unless your like in a stadium un-miked hehe) I guess what I'm saying is that I've noticed 0 drop off in power going from the Crest, which was solid state and rated at a higher power rating, to the Mesa which is tube and rated at a lower power rating. I also have noticed that the more I turn it up ( I believe I've gone to like 8 or 9 with the 15watt on), it sounds, heavier, and "fuller", just like folks are saying here. I like it!

That's called a Boogie period! A guy I met had a Mark III 1/2 stack (wanted to sell it to me, but I wanted to buy his Mark IIC combo ... nah, he didn't go for that ... crap!) , Anyway, the Mark III was simul-class (so was the II C), same thing,put the amp on 15 watts class A and man, i hate to hear it on 75Watts .... when I asked about the 100 Watt option he quickly said that the only reason to get that was if you had to play large outdoor gigs *clean*, and the 75 watts could pull that off, a jazz guy might be able to use the 100 watt, only difference being headroom. To think Mesa used to make the Coliseum series 300, they were like 260watts or so ... ouch!

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Watts are watts. The volume "difference" is a perceived difference. If you were to measure the actual volume a 50 watt ss and a 50 watt tube, all other things being equal, they should be pretty dead nuts equal. Maybe not perfectly equal, but close.

I don't beleive that, thats like saying a 100 watt marshall mg SS is as loud as a 59 plexi........uummmm

 

[MrHeavyMetal]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

tubes typically have high peak output levels, so they actually are putting out more wattage than a comparible ss amp. Also, tube amp distortion, is perceived louder by your ears due to the type of tube distortion that is being output. that's a simple description.

MrHM :smokin:

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

When I had my 71 Bassman Export amp retubed, my tech decided to test the output and measure the wattage that the head put out. My amp is rated at 65 watts, but on average, it was putting out about 80 and was making peaks of almost 200watts! I don't know if a ss amp could reproduce this, but I'd personally need to see it to belive it.

 

[flank]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

yeah some old 100 watt marshalls have been tested to kick out 140-150 watts..... but like somebody already said...... even if everybody says 100watts is 100watts........ i think even a 50 watt old tube marshall would annhilate a 100 watt ATV or MG marshall......

 

[Kent S.]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

I don't beleive that, thats like saying a 100 watt marshall mg SS is as loud as a 59 plexi........uummmm

Power output is power output, but in no way, is necessarily the same as SPL (acoustic volume) ... However 50 watts is still 50 watts. Now whether a company tests and rates the amp t under the same conditions is another matter all togther. Most crediable manufactures use continous average sine wave ... ie drive the amp at the correct load with a sine wave and get the highest power the amp can deliver and still be clean (unclipped waveform on the scope). The speakers themselves are a big *if* in the sound level. Also nobody stated that there was any even keel of frequency response across the board, amny times an amp that is brighter will be perceived as being louder than another.

 

[sanrafael]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

Given two amps with different kinds of overload characteristics, but everything else equal, the one with the "better" overload characteristics will sound louder because you can drive it further into overload without getting an objectional sound. Thus you are putting out more average power. Forget guitars for a minute, and consider listening to classical music on a stereo. When transistor amps took over from tube, the power level had to go up because some tube distortion is tolerable on classical music, but no transistor distortion is. You need more power to get the same perceived clean level. This is a simple example; guitar distortion is a much more complicated subject, but the same general thing applies.

 

[jemmisafe]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

So actually even though I'm 80 watts below the solid state mine will actually be lounder. So a tube watt is actually more than a solid state watt due only to the breakup pattern, without it they would be equal. And I can see your point about the SS amps.

I have had a 250watt Marshall Solid state, and a 120 AC Vox Solid state, and a 125 watt Bugera 2 x 12" all valve.
The Bugera beat the rest by miles in pure sound and volume.
I now play a 35 watt Supro Thunderbolt all valve and it knocks spots off all of themz, face ripping noise and clear as a bell.
Anything past 1/2 volume is just not needed, pure class amp that costs a lot more than the rest but worth every penny, looks great too!

 

[AlexR]

Re: tube wattage vs. solid state wattage

So you joined up to reply to a guy most likely long gone......The post being 15 years back.