Tuning a 12 string?

Re: Tuning a 12 string?

I don't think you'll cause many problems to a quality 12-string with standard light-gauge string tuned to standard pitch. With a really inexpensive budget model though, anything can happen.

And as to the idea of de-tuning the unison strings, I've talked to many, many professional 12-string players over the years and all of them have stressed to me the necessity of precise tuning of the courses...to the point of anal-retentive obsessiveness. LOL!

Get a tuner...use it often!

Bill
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

I don't think you'll cause many problems to a quality 12-string with standard light-gauge string tuned to standard pitch. With a really inexpensive budget model though, anything can happen.

And as to the idea of de-tuning the unison strings, I've talked to many, many professional 12-string players over the years and all of them have stressed to me the necessity of precise tuning of the courses...to the point of anal-retentive obsessiveness. LOL!

Get a tuner...use it often!

Bill

If anything the opposite may be the case, a budget model will probably have a laminated top & be braced into submission, However a more expensive model will have a lighter (thinner top) & less but more delicate bracing so that the top will vibrate & resonate more for a better tone. how the top moves is responsible for the vast majority of how an acoustic sounds & plays, it's not called a soundboard for anything it's essentially your speaker cone.

If you want to tune it to standard then fine I've done the same with mine & tuned it to open E with no consequences.

However when not playing I strongly urge the OP to slacken the string & reduce the tension on the guitar, at the end of the day it's his guitar & he's entitled to do with it as he pleases, however after a few weeks the novelty of the 12 string & the greater versatility of a 6 will mean the 12 gets stored mostly & gets brought out for recording or other speciality needs. And run the risk of reaching for it one day after it's spent a month or so in it's case only to have that gutwrenching heartsinking feeling when you play a chord or two it's full of buzzes rattles & out of tune notes because the top has bellied out. At that point this post will spring to mind
I had that exact scenario with a takamine which are no means budget guitars.

If you need more convincing just google 12 string soundboard lifting/bellying, I've posted some links

http://grahamparkerluthier.com/2010/10/23/acoustic-guitar-repair-guild-jf55-12-string/

http://www.strangeguitarworks.com/acoustic-guitar-belly-repair/

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-48452.html

http://handmademusicclubhouse.com/forum/topics/pulled-up-bridge-on-twelve

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-225937.html
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

How long of a break are you talking between playing before I would need to slack the strings? a week or longer?? I def dont want it to get jacked up
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

How long of a break are you talking between playing before I would need to slack the strings? a week or longer?? I def dont want it to get jacked up

I'm no expert by any means...I've always heard "awhile" and think if you are not going to play it in a month then slacken the strings. I don't think there is an exact time frame here, just overall good upkeep on your gear (really any guitar not being played should have the strings lax.)
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

Mine stays arond 1 & 1/2 to 2 steps down all the time & gets tuned up when played.
but I am super paranoind & accept it may be overkill
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

I try to keep all my gear top notch, almost to a fault. But I rarely ever slack strings on anything. But.. All my other guitars are kept in hard cases when not playing too. Ill slack em on this one if I start going a week or more without playing I suppose. to be safe. I dont have a case for this one yet, and being a 12 string, I know the pressure on the neck is more extreme.
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

I try to keep all my gear top notch, almost to a fault. But I rarely ever slack strings on anything. But.. All my other guitars are kept in hard cases when not playing too. Ill slack em on this one if I start going a week or more without playing I suppose. to be safe. I dont have a case for this one yet, and being a 12 string, I know the pressure on the neck is more extreme.

I hope I haven't been scaremongering, I've heard people leaving 12 strings in E for years & never experiencing problems & this may well be the case for your guitar. but I just prefer to be safe than sorry if you slacken the strings you may have to tweak the truss rod a touch here & there but its easier & cheaper than remedying a lifted bridge or soundboard.
& I'd get a case for it too better safe than........... well you know
:beerchug:
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

>>>>>>shaking terribly as this is typed<<<<<<< No, seriously, I appreciate the heads up. esp after the used Yamaha I bought a few years back had the bridge pulled up and was almost unplayable. Ill try to get a case down the road, and will def slack the strings if left dormant for any period of time.. If it jacks up and Im using it regularly, than shame on the maker.. which reminds me, need to mail the warranty card on my way home..
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

>>>>>>shaking terribly as this is typed<<<<<<< No, seriously, I appreciate the heads up. esp after the used Yamaha I bought a few years back had the bridge pulled up and was almost unplayable. Ill try to get a case down the road, and will def slack the strings if left dormant for any period of time.. If it jacks up and Im using it regularly, than shame on the maker.. which reminds me, need to mail the warranty card on my way home..

If its made well then it should be fine. ;) My '76 Guild just now had the bridge pulled up and is in the shop for a neck reset and will fix the bridge as well–if its built well then it will last ;)
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

my 12 had some clunky notes. I figured that it was my weak fingers not holding down the strings well enough. But I noticed there was no space under the strings. adjusted the truss rod and it much better!! When I tuned back up, I left it a half step down to get the lower pitch, ease play and lessen the stress on the neck.. However, it doesnt sound nearly as vibrant.
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

A well designed acoustic guitar takes string gauge into account. Martin Dreadnaughts are designed for 13's at standard pitch. It takes that much tension to allow a plucked string to actually move the soundboard and resonate. 000 sized Martins are designed for 12's. Lighter strings don't move the top, and start sounding like an unplugged electric. Tuning down does the same thing, reducing tension, and creating a more tinny, small sound. I'd check the manufacturer's website to see what the stock string recommendations are. I agree with BoogieBill, a set of light 12-Strings should be OK tuned to pitch. If you DO want to down tune over periods of non-use I guess that's OK, but when you tune back up there will probably be a short period for it to settle in. (Also, your comment about low action reflects the reduced tension on the neck from down tuning.)
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

Just for the record PFDarkside, just got it so strings are still stock Daddarios and I was playing standard tuning. I slacked the strings to adjust the truss. When tuning back up, I left it 1/2 step down..
 
Re: Tuning a 12 string?

A well designed acoustic guitar takes string gauge into account. Martin Dreadnaughts are designed for 13's at standard pitch. It takes that much tension to allow a plucked string to actually move the soundboard and resonate. 000 sized Martins are designed for 12's. Lighter strings don't move the top, and start sounding like an unplugged electric. Tuning down does the same thing, reducing tension, and creating a more tinny, small sound. I'd check the manufacturer's website to see what the stock string recommendations are. I agree with BoogieBill, a set of light 12-Strings should be OK tuned to pitch. If you DO want to down tune over periods of non-use I guess that's OK, but when you tune back up there will probably be a short period for it to settle in. (Also, your comment about low action reflects the reduced tension on the neck from down tuning.)

With any quality steel string acoustic a fine balance between tone & durabilty is strived for. It's easy to make a guitar that lasts forever but it will sound very poor conversely it's easy to make one that sounds great, a wafer thin top & no bracing but it probably wouldn't last more than a couple of hours as I said previously:

However a more expensive model will have a lighter (thinner top) & less but more delicate bracing so that the top will vibrate & resonate more for a better tone. how the top moves is responsible for the vast majority of how an acoustic sounds & plays, it's not called a soundboard for anything it's essentially your speaker cone.

ANY string gauge will cause the guitar top (& back & sides to resonate) I personally guarantee a set of 8's will cause the top of a martin to resonate I have not personally owned a martin but owned a guild I had permanently set up in nashville tuning (ridiculously light strings) & it resonated like a bell.
Tuning down does NOT create a small tinny sound in the slightest if anything the opposite is true try tuning to open C or D, hell even try drop D play the open D shape with the new low D string & listen the bass & just the meat of the sound it increases exponentially.

The truth of it is any guitar is a HUGE compromise in engineering design to get it stable & sounding great and the truth is it fails at both there are countless old acoustics out there both 6 & 12 from all the big boy manufacturers with bellied tops, lifted bridges, necks that need reseating. cracked heels, cracking soundboards etc that will attest this.

As I said before a cheaper acoustic is probably far more robust, a quality one should also last a lifetime or two also but it is far less sturdy than an entry level yamaha for example & needs to be cared for as such.
Use a humidifier, keep it in a case, clean the fingerboard frets etc when restringing & detune it whilst storing it
 
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Re: Tuning a 12 string?

Regan, we basically agree, but I stand by my point regarding gauge. My Martin was restrung with Extra Light gauge strings at the shop when I bought it. It sounded good, but a restring with Mediums brought it to life. I agree, drop D booms with it, but you are marginally reducing tension. Also, tuning down half a step isn't really going to affect it too much, but tuning down to C starts to. I do agree it's a balance; a dried out guitar sounds better than a well humidified one, but it won't last very long.

Anyway, enjoy the 12er, I've been GASsing for one for about... 12 years now. ;)
 
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