TUNING AND SETTING INTONATION ON GUITAR WITH Buzz Feiten System

[Gstring]

I have 2 guitars with BF system. The systems I have been using has been to tune at the 5th fret. (4th on the G). And intonate using 3rd and 15th frets . This is what I was advised some time ago by a luthier friend. Seems to more or less work. Wonder if anybody else uses a different method?

 

[Chistopher]

I would be careful about measuring intonation at the 3rd fret. The string isn't being thrown out of tune that low because of the length of the string, but rather because because you are so close to the nut. Even with perfect intonation, your bottom 3 frets will usually be a little off unless you have a zero fret or an earvana nut. nothing wrong with checking intonation at the 15th fret, but I usually use 12th because it's a little easier on account of being an octave.

 

[ICTGoober]

I use one that actually works.

 

[Gstring]

Hi Christopher

Are you saying that I should just intonate on the open string and twelfth fret like a normal guitar and ignore the shortened Buzzz Feiton nut position?. That does not make sense to me


Chris pile

What technique do you actually use?

 

[Mincer]

Years after it has been public, what do we think about Buzz's system?

 

[ICTGoober]

Are you saying that I should just intonate on the open string and twelfth fret like a normal guitar and ignore the shortened Buzzz Feiton nut position?.

It makes perfect sense since it works for 99% of the guitar players out there.

 

[Chistopher]

Hi Christopher

Are you saying that I should just intonate on the open string and twelfth fret like a normal guitar and ignore the shortened Buzzz Feiton nut position?. That does not make sense to me

Most of the time it won't make a difference. Sometimes it do

 

[ehdwuld]

I always check the intonation in a few places

12th fret -octave

4th fret

7th fret

Are options as well

I think if you play it in standard tuning
Then it should intonation in a standard way

The idea to be more in tune all over the fretboard

So why not at the 12th fret

Just because some guy told you something years ago doesn't mean it was correct

Just because none of us have heard of this
Doesn't mean he was wrong

I kinda heard a number of theories on guitar magic
from people who believed they had discovered the secret

Could be right....

Grain of salt....

What would it hurt to check in several other frets?

 

[Gstring]

This thread has been a little disappointing .Sadly none of the responders have been that helpful, I wonder whether any have actually owned a guitar with Buzz Feiten tuning or had any experience tuning one! Please correct me if I am wrong

It seems that some guitar tuners have a BFTS option, which is designed to be used with guitars with Buzz Feiten. But I am not minded to buy another tuner.

I just googled Tuning Buzz Feiten and came up with this

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/tuningwtbfts.htm

In response to Mincer I would say that the Buzz Feiten system would not be a dealbreaker when buying a guitar. However both my MIK go to Washburm guitars have a good "in tune" sound.

However, my feeling is that if you do get an axe with it installed there is a strong inference that if the manufacturer has taken the trouble to fit it, then the quality control of the guitar is likely to be well above average. My 2 Washburn are immaculate and play beautifully.. An opinion shared by others.and my guitars have been borrowed for recording sessions. Although I had to do a did a complete rewire of the pots and get rid of the nonsense VCC system , A gimmick which Washbrn should never have entertained.

 

[Mincer]

This thread has been a little disappointing .Sadly none of the responders have been that helpful, I wonder whether any have actually owned a guitar with Buzz Feiten tuning or had any experience tuning one! Please correct me if I am wrong

It seems that some guitar tuners have a BFTS option, which is designed to be used with guitars with Buzz Feiten. But I am not minded to buy another tuner.

I just googled Tuning Buzz Feiten and came up with this

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/tuningwtbfts.htm

In response to Mincer I would say that the Buzz Feiten system would not be a dealbreaker when buying a guitar. However both my MIK go to Washburm guitars have a good "in tune" sound.

However, my feeling is that if you do get an axe with it installed there is a strong inference that if the manufacturer has taken the trouble to fit it, then the quality control of the guitar is likely to be well above average. My 2 Washburn are immaculate and play beautifully.. An opinion shared by others.and my guitars have been borrowed for recording sessions. Although I had to do a did a complete rewire of the pots and get rid of the nonsense VCC system , A gimmick which Washbrn should never have entertained.

Interesting. About 20 years ago, there was a lot of buzz (sorry) about this system and how it was the next big thing. Companies paid a lot of money to license the system for their guitars. Magazine articles were written about how wonderful it is. Then it seemed overnight, it disappeared.

 

[Chistopher]

So what am I looking for when a guitar has a BF tuning system? I thought it was a system of tuning, not a unit installed on an instrument

 

[Seashore]

So what am I looking for when a guitar has a BF tuning system? I thought it was a system of tuning, not a unit installed on an instrument

It's a particular design of compensated nut.

 

[Chistopher]

Great now I'm even more lost :rant:

 

[56LPC]

I have 2 guitars with BF system. The systems I have been using has been to tune at the 5th fret. (4th on the G). And intonate using 3rd and 15th frets . This is what I was advised some time ago by a luthier friend. Seems to more or less work. Wonder if anybody else uses a different method?

Well, I don't have/use the BF system so this is speculation (sorry). I do have a compensated nut on a classical, and have given some thought to the issue that I feel might be worth sharing though...

The BF system is a combination of moving the nut to minimize the impact of string stiffness/height on intonation and special tuning offsets to minimize sour combinations of notes in typical "guitar" keys. Some companies (PRS, Taylor) already did the nut move without any other comment or instruction. Based on that understanding, setting your intonation at 3 and 15 (as I do) merely makes your fretboard "predictable" for the majority of your playing range. I'd keep doing it.

The tuning offsets should still work, possible with more consistency, but I suspect you only have access to them by tuning to open notes. I don't think the BF offsets in any tuners adjust for notes beyond the open strings?

Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't think BF had unique intonation offsets as well.

- Douglas C.

 

[jeremy]

i have a usa washburn wms, which i love, that has the bf tuning system. honestly, i just tune it normally. i set the intonation on all my guitars by checking a bunch of different things across the neck, starting with open, 12th, and 12th harmonic. youll never get everything to play intune. i do notice that the bf system does help a bit maybe?

 

[Gstring]

Christopher
I now understand why I found your post so confusing!


Hi 56LPC

Thanks for posting . I think what you say makes sense.


Hi Jeremy

Thanks for posting. It's good to hear from another Washburn fan. Those made circa 2000/2006 in the USA and Korea were, in my view very greatly underestimated . From what I understand there was actually little difference between the US Custom shop models and those made in the Cort factory except for the CTS pots. An issue easily sorted . I actually prefer the binding and finish and the 4 pots on the Korean guitars. Also I think the Korean axes were more hollow . Fast approaching 80 years young I very much prefer guitars that weigh less than 7 and half pounds. I had a luthier level crown and polish the frets on both my washburns and he said only a minimum amount of work was actually needed. He had seen worse custom shop fretwork. I very mich endorse your view of the BF system

 

[Cynical]

Interesting. About 20 years ago, there was a lot of buzz (sorry) about this system and how it was the next big thing. Companies paid a lot of money to license the system for their guitars. Magazine articles were written about how wonderful it is. Then it seemed overnight, it disappeared.

It disappeared because, like every innovation that's supposed to fix the mathematical mistake made in 12-tone western music theory, it was snake oil nonsense. You can't fix one key without making another worse, that's just basic math.

 

[ICTGoober]

Most guitars are inherently NOT in tune with themselves for a number of reasons.
The biggest reason is taper in string spacing from bridge to nut.
Fret location is determined by math - aka the rule of 18.
So all the frets are at right angles to the strings for the most part.
When there is taper, that makes each string longer than the scale length.
It's more exaggerated on Fender stuff compared to Gibson.
Classical guitars come the closest to being in tune with themselves because the string spacing is the same at the bridge and the nut.
Even then, with variations in strings, fret condition, and so on - it's never going to be perfect.

 

[Cynical]

Most guitars are inherently NOT in tune with themselves for a number of reasons.
The biggest reason is taper in string spacing from bridge to nut.
Fret location is determined by math - aka the rule of 18.
So all the frets are at right angles to the strings for the most part.
When there is taper, that makes each string longer than the scale length.
It's more exaggerated on Fender stuff compared to Gibson.
Classical guitars come the closest to being in tune with themselves because the string spacing is the same at the bridge and the nut.
Even then, with variations in strings, fret condition, and so on - it's never going to be perfect.

And, even if all of that could be made perfect, it would *still* be wrong. Western music theory is built around the idea of 12 equally spaced tones where the octave is twice the frequency of the root, the fifth is 1.5x the frequency of the root, the fourth is 1.333...x the frequency of the root, the major third is 1.25x the root, and the minor third 1.2x the root. The problem is that the math on this isn't correct. With 12 equally spaced tones and the octave 2x the root, the thirds, fourth, and fifth are all a couple cents off from where they're supposed to be, which means that all triads are always slightly out of tune. The reason Buzz Feitan has the tuning offsets is to average out the errors in the five cowboy chords, but the number of guitarists who are interested in expensive mods to their guitars and are tuning accurate to a few cents but also aren't interested in playing anything aside from CAGED shapes is basically zero.

 

[Seashore]

It disappeared because, like every innovation that's supposed to fix the mathematical mistake made in 12-tone western music theory, it was snake oil nonsense. You can't fix one key without making another worse, that's just basic math.

I think it also just doesn't make sense to use a special intonation and tuning system unless everybody you play and record with is also using it. Two guitars that sound great by themselves can sound like crap together if they were intonated differently. Reminds me of all those Craigslist musicians' section ads I never saw looking for guitar or bass players who used the Buzz Feiten system. Sorry bro, it's a deal breaker, you're a great player but we need a Buzz Feiten user. Who among us hasn't thought it.

The thing that annoyed me the most on the website, though, was the part where they talked about making "precise adjustments" of the bridge saddles as if that wasn't a part of every good setup.