Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

[wasteofo2]

I bought a C-5, and without installing it, followed the www.projectguitar.com guide to changing magnets, and changed the A5 for an A2. When I initially installed it, it sounded really fat and tight and crisp and middy and great, exactly how I expected/hoped it would sound, but I did this late at night, so didn't play it extensively. I was trying to achieve a complex wiring, messed up, and until I get a reply from SD tech guys, I decided to convert it to master volume/tone (it's an sg, 2 volume, 2 tone, 3 way switch). Anyway, today, the CC sounded really weak and thin, much more than the Alnico II pro in the neck (which sounds great), so I thought maybe there were a wiring problem, like the white and red wires weren't connected (because it sounded single coil like), so I re-connected the red and white wires, nothing changed, I ran the black wire directly to the output jack, and it sounded pretty much the same.

So, I thought that maybe I was just remembering last night wrong, and maybe the A2 magnet was horribly weak or something, so i switched it out and replaced it with the original A5 magnet that was in it, now it's even weaker and thinner than it was before.

So what I'm thinking now, is that I'm effectively destroying something by changing out the magnets, and replacing the A2 might just destroy the pickup.

Anyone had a problem like this/any idea how I'd go about solving it?

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

Well...no. I've changed many a magnet and have never had the problem your having. I almost want to say out of phase with the neck, but then I'm sure you'd know if you were using the middle position rather than the bridge.

I wonder if something is wrong inside the pickup itself. If not, it's wiring alright, don't even sweat the magnet swaps.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

I've been using the CC and C-5 in my two main Les Pauls, and have to say if I had to choose, the C-5 wins. Tighter bottom, and more natural and clean mids and highs.
I have no idea why you're having a problem, but if you're using the black as hot, the green/silver as ground, and the red/white soldered together and taped down, you're doing it right. Make sure that the hot and ground points you used before are the same one's you're using now.

 

[wasteofo2]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

When I originally removed the magnet I used a flat-head screwdriver, inserted that through the side of the pickup which had the wires under the tape, so that the magnet could slide out on the open side. Is there any way that I could have like stripped some coils or cut a wire or something in doing this?

Korva, I actually took great care to make sure the magnet's orientation was the same as the one it replaced, and I was just using the bridge alone. GJ, I am using the proper wire combo, but the grounds were moved to a different position (moved from their own pot to the pot the neck's grounded to), could that really make a difference?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

You need to check each coil for continuity to see if you broke a wire or something. If you have a multi meter use it.

Since you have four conductor cable, you can also check with your ears.

Separate the red and white wires so you have four wires again.

Somehow connect a pair of wires from one coil to your guitar cord, plug the other end into your amp, and then tap on the polepieces of with a metal object and see if that coil is still alive. Then connect the other pair and see if that coil is alive.

If one of them is dead, you broke a wire somewhere and you'll have to disassemble the pickup and find out what you did.

 

[wasteofo2]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

You need to check each coil for continuity to see if you broke a wire or something. If you have a multi meter use it.

Since you have four conductor cable, you can also check with your ears.

Separate the red and white wires so you have four wires again.

Somehow connect a pair of wires from one coil to your guitar cord, plug the other end into your amp, and then tap on the polepieces of with a metal object and see if that coil is still alive. Then connect the other pair and see if that coil is alive.

If one of them is dead, you broke a wire somewhere and you'll have to disassemble the pickup and find out what you did.

Would the combo's to use be Black and Red/Green and White, or Black and White/Green and Red?

I actually checked to see if either coil was dead by selecting the CC and tapping on the pole pieces of both coils with a screwdriver, I got sounds from both that were pretty much identicle. Would the test you prescribed find anything further out, or did my test cover that?

Thanks,
Jacob

 

[korinastratkyle]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

Well, putting in the magnet, maybe you could have shorted the first coil but taking the tape off it and having it touch the magnet shorting it to ground. Alnico is conductive electrically, and FYI Ceramic is very resistant due to how it's made. If you have a multimeter, desolder the hot ( which should be black) and test it's resistance. It should read about 14K ohms, if it's shorted it will read about 7K ohms.

 

[korinastratkyle]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

Would the combo's to use be Black and Red/Green and White, or Black and White/Green and Red?

it should be:
Black for +
White and Red soldered together
and Green to ground.

If you have one coil out of phase the thing is going to act screwy because it will then be 180 degrees out of phase causing the 2 coils to cancel each other out completely, in an ideal setting. In a realistic setting they aren't exacting completly out of phase due to certain factors. Trust me, I know, I actually have checked out the behavior of the waves generated by pickups on an oscilliscope. :22:

 

[wasteofo2]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

it should be:
Black for +
White and Red soldered together
and Green to ground.

If you have one coil out of phase the thing is going to act screwy because it will then be 180 degrees out of phase causing the 2 coils to cancel each other out completely, in an ideal setting. In a realistic setting they aren't exacting completly out of phase due to certain factors. Trust me, I know, I actually have checked out the behavior of the waves generated by pickups on an oscilliscope. :22:

I wasn't asking how I shold wire it regularly, I was asking which 2 wires come from either coil.

I definately don't have one coil out of phase with the other, unless it came like that somehow...

 

[tone4days]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

black and white are one coil

red and green are the other

 

[wasteofo2]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

Ok, I'm positive it isn't just one coil, I wired the pickup up so I could split it with a pot, and when it's in full humbucking mode, i get sound when tapping either coil with something metallic, and when I split it, it gets much weaker. My Alnico II fully split is much hotter than the CC in full humbucking mode.

 

[Leather Rebel]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

Ok, I'm positive it isn't just one coil, I wired the pickup up so I could split it with a pot, and when it's in full humbucking mode, i get sound when tapping either coil with something metallic, and when I split it, it gets much weaker. My Alnico II fully split is much hotter than the CC in full humbucking mode.

I'd try to bypass all of the switching and wire the humbucker in full series mode to the volume control. At least you may be able to eliminate the pickup as the problem. If it worked well before and then crapped out the next day, I'm guessing that you may have a bad solder joint or some of the wiring has moved around and shorted to ground or something. Try re-heating the solder connections and verify the wiring. Eliminate the variables. Good luck.

 

[wasteofo2]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

I already tried that, wired the red and white together, grounded green and bare and soldered the black wire straight to the output jack.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Turned a C5 into a CC, got some problems...

If you have another pickup handy, swap it in there and see if the same thing is happening. If so, go back to wiring it as stock, just to eliminate any mistakes you made along the way. Sounds like something hot is being shorted to ground to make it that weak, without being completely off. I'm not sure who on this forum lives near you, but there's someone that would help you for free, I'm sure.