Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
- Thread starter jmcorey
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Falstaff
Guest
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
Let's take it apart a bit. I'll be very general here and probably will screw up something that a few other, more expert will correct me on, but they didn't take the time to write this...
THe early Fender amps were covered in a tweed material. Hence the name Tweed Amps. It references the Fifties models for the most part. Lots of mids on these amps. Very raw sound.
Then in the very early 60's, the started putting brown tolex on their models and the controls got moved from the top to the front. The plate behind the control pots were brown for the most part: hence, the name Brownfaced. They added some vibrato/tremolo to some of these models. That kinda sucks a bit of the raw tone away IMO.
Then along about, what, 63 or 64, they started using black tolex and black faceplates (I've even seen a brown tolexed amp with a blackfaceplate, like Leo had some left over parts or something) and we call those amps, the Blackfaces. Oh yeah, they started adding Reverb to those Blackfaced amps and the world has never looked back. The left the vibrato/tremolo on there as well. Tone-wise, these amps are a little softer on the mids.
Along about 68 or so, Fender got sold to CBS (I think) and they decided that those awful Blackface amps distorted too quickly. We must fight off Marshall and the others, so we'll try and give our amps more clean headroom. The results were generally thought of as being a bit on the sterile side of the tone spectrum. They're often referred to as Silverfaces because they left the black tolex, but put silver faceplates behind the controls.
I have a first year silverfaced Pro Reverb. When I got it, I rewired the circuit and turned it back into the Blackface Circuit from the previous year. Amp now sounds better.
Now to address your question, there is a Tweed Champ (1x8), Tweed Deluxe (1x12), Tweed Super (2x10), Tweed Bandmaster (3x10), Tweed Pro (1x15), Tweed Bassman (4x10), Low powered Tweed Twin (2x12) and probably some others I'm missing.
As far as tubes, the Tweed Champ and Deluxe used 6V6 power tubes and the rest of them used 6L6 power tubes.
That Fender Field Guide link above has a WEALTH of info on all the models, what tubes they used, etc.,. I've spent countless hours there.
Let's take it apart a bit. I'll be very general here and probably will screw up something that a few other, more expert will correct me on, but they didn't take the time to write this...
THe early Fender amps were covered in a tweed material. Hence the name Tweed Amps. It references the Fifties models for the most part. Lots of mids on these amps. Very raw sound.
Then in the very early 60's, the started putting brown tolex on their models and the controls got moved from the top to the front. The plate behind the control pots were brown for the most part: hence, the name Brownfaced. They added some vibrato/tremolo to some of these models. That kinda sucks a bit of the raw tone away IMO.
Then along about, what, 63 or 64, they started using black tolex and black faceplates (I've even seen a brown tolexed amp with a blackfaceplate, like Leo had some left over parts or something) and we call those amps, the Blackfaces. Oh yeah, they started adding Reverb to those Blackfaced amps and the world has never looked back. The left the vibrato/tremolo on there as well. Tone-wise, these amps are a little softer on the mids.
Along about 68 or so, Fender got sold to CBS (I think) and they decided that those awful Blackface amps distorted too quickly. We must fight off Marshall and the others, so we'll try and give our amps more clean headroom. The results were generally thought of as being a bit on the sterile side of the tone spectrum. They're often referred to as Silverfaces because they left the black tolex, but put silver faceplates behind the controls.
I have a first year silverfaced Pro Reverb. When I got it, I rewired the circuit and turned it back into the Blackface Circuit from the previous year. Amp now sounds better.
Now to address your question, there is a Tweed Champ (1x8), Tweed Deluxe (1x12), Tweed Super (2x10), Tweed Bandmaster (3x10), Tweed Pro (1x15), Tweed Bassman (4x10), Low powered Tweed Twin (2x12) and probably some others I'm missing.
As far as tubes, the Tweed Champ and Deluxe used 6V6 power tubes and the rest of them used 6L6 power tubes.
That Fender Field Guide link above has a WEALTH of info on all the models, what tubes they used, etc.,. I've spent countless hours there.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
And the tweed you see on Peavey Classics?........vinyl that looks like tweed.
And quiz question. Does anyone know which direction a proper Fender tweed pattern runs?
And the tweed you see on Peavey Classics?........vinyl that looks like tweed.
And quiz question. Does anyone know which direction a proper Fender tweed pattern runs?
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
Diagonal running top left to bottem right. Got to pay attention to those details or a re-tweed won't look right. :smack:
Lew
Gearjoneser said:
Diagonal running top left to bottem right. Got to pay attention to those details or a re-tweed won't look right. :smack:
Lew
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
In terms of tone, Fender amps became cleaner with less midrange throughout the years.
1. The early split front Dual Professional and TV front Fenders (pre- '53) are very ballsy...more gain and easier to overdrive than the wide panel tweeds that come next.
2. The wide panel tweeds ('53 - '55) are warmer with less balls and less gain. Harder to overdrive.
3. The narrow panel tweeds ('56 -'60) have more gain again...amps like the Pro, Super and Bassman. These use the same tone capacitor values (a pair of .02) for the bass and mids as a plexi Marshall and have a very Marshall-esque tone. These are the amps that Marshall copied part for part to create the JTM-45 and later plexi style amps.
4. The brown face amps ('61 & '62) are cool, but kind of undecided. They're in this purgatory world between tweed and blackface. I like the Deluxe, Concert and Bassman models though and like the presence control on some. I wish Fender had continued with that feature...it adds a little sizzle.
5. The blackface ('63 - '67) non-reverb amps are cleaner than the reverb amps, and without a lot of gain or ability to be overdriven. But the reverb amps from the blackface era have another stage of gain compared to the non-reverb blackface amps and the reverb channel is always ballsier and has more gain. But the mids and bass are almost scooped due to the .1 and .047 capacitor values used in the tone control stack. In my blackface amps I change those value back to the pair of .02 caps used in the tweed Bassman for more mids, more bass and a ballsier tone.
6. The silverface amps ('68 to ??? ) are OK at first, then CBS starts cheapening them around '68 or '69 with second rate capacitors and parts. Then they redesign the bias circuit so the bias current cannot be adjusted...only balanced so non-matched output tubes can be used. I always "blackface" silverface Fenders and make the bias adjustable as we all use matched output tubes these days and don't need to use the bias balance control to "match" unmatched output tubes.
7. By '73 Fender starts using good capacitors again and the tone improves but the cabinet gets worse! Fingerjoined or box joined corners disappear and the cabs are just glued together in the corners without any kind of locking joint. Also, the speaker baffles becomes non-remavable and non-floating and is glued into a dado in the sides and bottem of the cabinet. CHEAP construction and most of thse have loosened up so that the cabinet corners need regluing by 2004! About '75 CBS puts master volumes and bigger output transformers on the amps which messes up the tone again! Removal of the master volume improves these amps but you still have the bigger output transformers to contend with and they tend to make those amps break up in a less pleasing way.
8. Late 70's/early 80's: Paul Rivera joins Fender and the quality goes up again! Though he did not design the amps he is credited with designing: Super Champ, Twin Reverb II, Concert, etc. An aerospace technician named Ed Jahns designed those at Paul Rivera's request and Ed was not a guitarist and did not understand the type of distortion guitarists prefer...so those amps are a little hi-fi sounding to me and the distortion usable but the not the equal of the Boogies Paul built for Randall Smith.
In terms of tone, Fender amps became cleaner with less midrange throughout the years.
1. The early split front Dual Professional and TV front Fenders (pre- '53) are very ballsy...more gain and easier to overdrive than the wide panel tweeds that come next.
2. The wide panel tweeds ('53 - '55) are warmer with less balls and less gain. Harder to overdrive.
3. The narrow panel tweeds ('56 -'60) have more gain again...amps like the Pro, Super and Bassman. These use the same tone capacitor values (a pair of .02) for the bass and mids as a plexi Marshall and have a very Marshall-esque tone. These are the amps that Marshall copied part for part to create the JTM-45 and later plexi style amps.
4. The brown face amps ('61 & '62) are cool, but kind of undecided. They're in this purgatory world between tweed and blackface. I like the Deluxe, Concert and Bassman models though and like the presence control on some. I wish Fender had continued with that feature...it adds a little sizzle.
5. The blackface ('63 - '67) non-reverb amps are cleaner than the reverb amps, and without a lot of gain or ability to be overdriven. But the reverb amps from the blackface era have another stage of gain compared to the non-reverb blackface amps and the reverb channel is always ballsier and has more gain. But the mids and bass are almost scooped due to the .1 and .047 capacitor values used in the tone control stack. In my blackface amps I change those value back to the pair of .02 caps used in the tweed Bassman for more mids, more bass and a ballsier tone.
6. The silverface amps ('68 to ??? ) are OK at first, then CBS starts cheapening them around '68 or '69 with second rate capacitors and parts. Then they redesign the bias circuit so the bias current cannot be adjusted...only balanced so non-matched output tubes can be used. I always "blackface" silverface Fenders and make the bias adjustable as we all use matched output tubes these days and don't need to use the bias balance control to "match" unmatched output tubes.
7. By '73 Fender starts using good capacitors again and the tone improves but the cabinet gets worse! Fingerjoined or box joined corners disappear and the cabs are just glued together in the corners without any kind of locking joint. Also, the speaker baffles becomes non-remavable and non-floating and is glued into a dado in the sides and bottem of the cabinet. CHEAP construction and most of thse have loosened up so that the cabinet corners need regluing by 2004! About '75 CBS puts master volumes and bigger output transformers on the amps which messes up the tone again! Removal of the master volume improves these amps but you still have the bigger output transformers to contend with and they tend to make those amps break up in a less pleasing way.
8. Late 70's/early 80's: Paul Rivera joins Fender and the quality goes up again! Though he did not design the amps he is credited with designing: Super Champ, Twin Reverb II, Concert, etc. An aerospace technician named Ed Jahns designed those at Paul Rivera's request and Ed was not a guitarist and did not understand the type of distortion guitarists prefer...so those amps are a little hi-fi sounding to me and the distortion usable but the not the equal of the Boogies Paul built for Randall Smith.
Last edited:
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
Bump for Tweeds.
Bump for Tweeds.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
The blackface Deluxe and Deluxe Reverb are the same amp except the Deluxe Reverb has reverb and an extra stage of gain that is the reverb circuit itself...or what's called the reverb recovery circuit. That gives the Deluxe Reverb a ballsier tone than the Deluxe. Lew
Dave said:
The blackface Deluxe and Deluxe Reverb are the same amp except the Deluxe Reverb has reverb and an extra stage of gain that is the reverb circuit itself...or what's called the reverb recovery circuit. That gives the Deluxe Reverb a ballsier tone than the Deluxe. Lew
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Tweed Amps - Which ones are they
Thanks for your post Scott, I thought you did a great job describing these amps. I just threw in a little additonal info, that's all. How you feeling, BTW? A little better I hope! :dance: Lew
Scott_F said:Good fill in Lew. you're the expert on this stuff, not me. I just play around at building one now and then.
Thanks for your post Scott, I thought you did a great job describing these amps. I just threw in a little additonal info, that's all. How you feeling, BTW? A little better I hope! :dance: Lew
