Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

J

joegore

Tone Fiend in Residence
Hey guys — at the suggestion of a tonefiend.com reader, I've been toying with variations on the Leo Fender's under-exploited "PTB" tone controls — a passive tone control with separate treble and bass knobs. And I'm just flipping out over how RELEVANT it is for humbucker applications. I've posted a demo and wiring diagrams here.

Can't believe more people haven't done this one — it's really, really good. :)
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

This is very cool. Ill look into it more after work. I have a bassy neck pickup that could use more clarity at times.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

And I'm just flipping out over how RELEVANT it is for humbucker applications
Click to expand...

Yep, or for Z coils.

PTB in a 3xS guitar never made sense to me since single coils don't have enough low end content for the bass control to have much effect.

Put that in a humbucker equiped guitar, or any guitar that has some pickups with bass content though, and watch out.

I like .0022uf caps on both controls. The treble is a low pass filter, the bass is a high pass filter.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

Might be a nice setup for people that have boomy '59s in the neck.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

Yup - there's a similar circuit in the venerable "Guitar Electronics for Musicians" by Donald Brosnac. He also covers using a capacitor in series with a choke coil to do a mid range control.

I think Reverend also uses it for their "bass contour" control.

It's been years since I played with it, and I've never tried it with hbs... nice workup!
 
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Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

RayBarbeeMusic said:
Yep, or for Z coils.

PTB in a 3xS guitar never made sense to me since single coils don't have enough low end content for the bass control to have much effect.

Put that in a humbucker equiped guitar, or any guitar that has some pickups with bass content though, and watch out.

I like .0022uf caps on both controls. The treble is a low pass filter, the bass is a high pass filter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you expressed it perfectly.That's why this simple mod blew my mind so much. It is SOOO relevant for humbuckers, especially for recording guitarists.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

It would do well there if you have an individual tone control you can dedicate to the neck; it might make the bridge too thin though if used on both. I guess in a 4 knob LP type you could do bass/treble on neck and just volume on bridge, that might be interesting.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

I think the PTB system has plenty of use on a Strat when using the neck and/or middle pickups. However, over all I don't like it on my Legacy Rustic because 1) the pots are master controls, and 2) Strats have only three pots; my ideal setup for PTB on a Strat would have four pots. On a Strat, I like the middle pickup to have its own tone control; it's very important in they way I use my Strats. A lot of Strattiness is lost when you go to a master tone setup, and also when you add the bridge pickup to the middle pickup's tone control.

On a two pickup guitar with four knobs, though, it'd be killer. A 2xHB 4-pot setup I have wanted to try for some time:

- two-pot PTB system for neck pickup only (where the bridge volume and tone normally go)
- regular tone control for bridge pickup (in normal neck tone spot)
- master volume (in normal neck volume spot)

For a Strat, I have thought of:

- master volume (as stock)
- bass cut for neck and middle (where middle pickup tone normally goes)
- middle tone (as stock)
- bridge pickup has no tone control (as stock)

or

- master volume (as stock)
- dual concentric pot with PTB setup - bass cut (bottom knob) is for neck and middle, and treble cut (top knob) is normal neck tone control. (Or you could make it a bridge tone control if you want.)
- middle tone (as stock)
- bridge pickup has no tone control (as stock)

I can deal with master volume controls, but I really don't like master tone controls on multi-pickup guitars.
 
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Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

ItsaBass said:
I think the PTB system has plenty of use on a Strat when using the neck and/or middle pickups. However, over all I don't like it on my Legacy Rustic because 1) the pots are master controls, and 2) Strats have only three pots; my ideal setup for PTB on a Strat would have four pots. On a Strat, I like the middle pickup to have its own tone control; it's very important in they way I use my Strats. A lot of Strattiness is lost when you go to a master tone setup, and also when you add the bridge pickup to the middle pickup's tone control.

On a two pickup guitar with four knobs, though, it'd be killer. A 2xHB 4-pot setup I have wanted to try for some time:

- two-pot PTB system for neck pickup only (where the bridge volume and tone normally go)
- regular tone control for bridge pickup (in normal neck tone spot)
- master volume (in normal neck volume spot)

For a Strat, I have thought of:

- master volume (as stock)
- bass cut for neck and middle (where middle pickup tone normally goes)
- middle tone (as stock)
- bridge pickup has no tone control (as stock)

or

- master volume (as stock)
- dual concentric pot with PTB setup - bass cut (bottom knob) is for neck and middle, and treble cut (top knob) is normal neck tone control. (Or you could make it a bridge tone control if you want.)
- middle tone (as stock)
- bridge pickup has no tone control (as stock)

I can deal with master volume controls, but I really don't like master tone controls on multi-pickup guitars.
Click to expand...

Cool ideas! And I didn't mean to suggest that this wiring is ONLY good for dual humbuckers. It's just that it solves a frequent problem with humbuckers. And how often do you hear players say, "My Strat is just too boomy?" ;)
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

Joe, I have 17 G&Ls and I love the PTB system! Once I figured out how to use it, I was hooked. Actually, I also have two of Leo's Music Man Sabre II guitars, and these have the forerunner of the PTB system, but it is an active preamp with treble and bass controls and a brite switch. The preamp is low noise and buffered, so I can drive 50 effects and 100 feet of cable, and not lose any signal at all.

I normal my PTB controls with the Treble at 10 and the Bass at 5, with volume on 7-8 for my rhythm parts. I set the amp volume and tones, with the maximum amount of treble I'll need from the bridge pickup. Pickups are set progressively lower from neck to bridge, to get a close match in volume for each pickup. It's very quick system to go from warm, jazzy rhythm tones to brite twang and quack...and all the stops in between.

Another really cool thing I like to do is to induce some feedback, and then I can literaly "tune" the harmonics with the PTB. Neat effect.

You are on to something with the idea of using the PTB with Humbuckers. I think a guitar like the Hamer Custom Artist or Custom Studio, or a Gibson Explorer or Flying V would be perfect platforms for a PTB mod, as they already have a three-knob system. But you can also do this on a Big Apple (2HB) strat--as G&L does with their Legacy HB (bridge TB-4) or their Legacy 2HB with the 59N/TB-4 set.

What I know is that the PTB does seem to work best on the guitars with the hotter pickups than the alnico single coils on the Legacy--the Legacy Special, S-500 and Comanche models all have high-output pickups, and the PTB is very effective in these guitars.

Let me know how your project comes out. At the very least, try the PTB system, if you haven't already. It's a vast improvement over the vintage strat controls, and I know I'll never go back to using a stock strat.

Bill
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

joegore said:
And how often do you hear players say, "My Strat is just too boomy?" ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, it will be more useful to more people when used on humbuckers. But, personally, I find every Strat too boomy in the neck, middle, and neck+middle positions as stock. A lot of it has to do with style of play. I pick hard and play mostly a few strings at once or full bars, not single notes. For single notes, you are right; not a lot of complaints about boominess...but I'd say the same about humbuckers.
 
Re: Two-Band Tone Controls for Humbuckers

joegore said:
Can't believe more people haven't done this one — it's really, really good. :)
Click to expand...

Actually, quite a few of us has. Its called the "de-mud mod". (Do a search for "de-mud".) The difference between the de-mud mod and the variable sytem is just that I used a fixed resistor. In my initial tests, I didn't find much use for making it variable, but I'll have to re-investigate this now. This would be killer on an HSS Strat.

Btw, love your video's Joe. I especially liked that little Dm thing you did near the end of your Mongrel Strat video. I wish that went on for longer.

Artie
 
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