Two Fishman Fluence questions

[PFDarkside]

For the Strat set...

-How does it play with vintage fuzzes like germanium and silicon Fuzz Faces and Tone Benders? Do they behave well (similar to vintage Strat) or not so nicely?

-Could one use an onboard mid boost with them, like the Clapton circuit or EMG SPC?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

One more question...

Even though this:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fishman/Set-of-3-Fluence-Single-Width-Single-Coil-Pickups.gc
Is sold as three pickups, does it actually include pots, wiring, etc. to install in a guitar? Everything minus the battery? Or would I need to source the pots and stuff?

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

The Strat set comes with all the hardware except the 5-way switch. (Pots, battery clip, output jack, some spare wire I think, for the bridge ground and output)

Fluence is low impedance so it behaves like any buffered signal into a Fuzz Face or MKII Bender. I have the 65 Colour Bender and Colour Face (disclaimer I worked with 65 on those) and both are, of course bright with Fluence. I always have the High Frequency Tilt on Fluence when going into a fuzz. But yes the interaction between a passive high impedance coil and the front end load of a germanium doesn't occur. That said, I think it sounds good and cleans up very well when you roll it off. I do use them together.

Some of that sound is the fuzz also expecting a higher impedance though, so we've done some experiments with a 250k or 500k volume pedal in front, and that warmed it up too. We're working on some things. Greg Koch has a signature pedal that has a Fuzz on it, with a buffer switch. So it works with either passives or Fluence. That little buffer (really more like an Un-buffer) may become available at some point.

Yes you can use the Clapton or SPC but when in the circuit they will clip and limit the signal, because they have lower headroom than the Fluence. You don't notice it with EMG pickups, because they already have low headroom. Even Clapton with Lace Sensors didn't have the same transients as with Strat pickups. So my advice is to definitely wire either/both in a true bypass fashion. And because of the extra power consumption the rechargeable battery pack would really come in handy.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Thanks as always Frank! Does the kit include a push-pull for the voicing?

That totally makes sense regarding headroom, I was reviewing your other posts on the topic, and that's an additional reason I'd like to try out the Fluence. Regarding the SPC/Clapton boost, in all likelihood a standalone tube screamer will probably get a similar effect for me. (mid boost, level bump, increased compression).

I've been thinking of a similar concept for the "unbuffer" for use with actives and wireless systems. Could be a cool product, even if it's a limited market.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Yeah wireless units do the same thing. The real issue is not getting the germanium fuzz to sound right at full volume. It's restoring the way it changes if you turn the guitar volume down. You can't fix that on a wireless either. The unbuffer would make the Fuzz sound right, but still not quite nail the sound when turning the volume down. That would almost have to be something built into a volume pedal (which could be done) or like a transformer on-board the guitar, before the volume control. I had (have) an idea for an on-board transformer with a push-pull or something. So you could select whether the guitar with low impedance pickups would be fuzz friendly, or whether it would take advantage of the low impedance signal. But that's for some other day, some other time.

The on-board boosts are fine as long as they're true bypassed when off. But yes, a pedal boost would behave the same way, because of the fact that Fluence will sound the same after whatever cable length.

And yes there's at least one push/pull included with the Strat set. Not sure if there's two of them, for the High Frequency Tilt or not.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

OK Mr. Falbo, a few questions on the HH sets now...

•There are coil splitting tabs available on all Humbucker sized Fluence pickups. I know they reject a lot of noise when in split mode, are they setup like Duncans where both neck and bridge have the same N/S relationship so a bridge stud cancels hum with a neck screw? Or are they setup so a neck screw cancels with a bridge screw?

•Given an HH Super Strat setup with three pots that could all be push/pull... Obviously one should be assigned to Voice 1/2. One could use another for Coil Splitting both pickups. Would the third be better suited to HF Tilt or to selecting if Screws/Studs are split to? (Similar to a non-triple shot P-Rails wiring some do)

•Does Modern vs Classic change any of the answers above?

(Also, I see the single width for use with HSH and HSS is available now. Examining those diagrams makes me understand why it took a while to release, it's not as simple as slapping 2 of the Strats and a Humbucker in the same guitar. Some good through went into optimizing the HSS and HSH setups)

Thanks Frank, you're the man!

 

[Dusty.Rhoads]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

OK Mr. Falbo, a few questions on the HH sets now...

•There are coil splitting tabs available on all Humbucker sized Fluence pickups. I know they reject a lot of noise when in split mode, are they setup like Duncans where both neck and bridge have the same N/S relationship so a bridge stud cancels hum with a neck screw? Or are they setup so a neck screw cancels with a bridge screw?

•Given an HH Super Strat setup with three pots that could all be push/pull... Obviously one should be assigned to Voice 1/2. One could use another for Coil Splitting both pickups. Would the third be better suited to HF Tilt or to selecting if Screws/Studs are split to? (Similar to a non-triple shot P-Rails wiring some do)

•Does Modern vs Classic change any of the answers above?

(Also, I see the single width for use with HSH and HSS is available now. Examining those diagrams makes me understand why it took a while to release, it's not as simple as slapping 2 of the Strats and a Humbucker in the same guitar. Some good through went into optimizing the HSS and HSH setups)

Thanks Frank, you're the man!

Excuse my butting in.
With HH set up you might want to consider a push pull pot for V1/V2 selection for each pickup. The standard set up is one so you have both p'ups either on V1 or V2. With two pots you can mix V1 and V2 which actually more than doubles your tonal palette and adds some very useful options.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Such as Hot Rod bridge and PAF neck? I see how that would be useful to switch between on the fly with a single flick rather than two moves.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

You can also play around with the options by hanging the wires outside the edge of the pickguard and just clipping them to ground. The readon I say this is because occasionally we hear someone who likes the neck V1 with bridge V2 AND vice versa. So for that you'd flip flop them on the same push pull. Also some people like the HF tilt only on like..voice 1 in the bridge. But off everywhere else. For that you can piggyback the HF tilt onto the Voice push pull so it's automatically on the bridge pickup in V1. There are tons of options if you think about it enough.

Yes the SSA pickup is a super smart brain that can grab coils from the neck or bridge HB, or single to deliver amazing 2 & 4 position tones in a Superstrat. There was indeed a lot of thought out into it. You can still put the original Strat single coil into a guitar with two of our Humbuckers, it just doesn't afford you those options.

The neck and bridge versions of our HB's are RWRP so that the inside coils will hum cancel with the outside coils. Even as single coils they're pretty quiet. Like, as a player I've always switched to coil split without giving noise any thought.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Excellent, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Dusty.Rhoads]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

OK Mr. Falbo, a few questions on the HH sets now...

•There are coil splitting tabs available on all Humbucker sized Fluence pickups. I know they reject a lot of noise when in split mode, are they setup like Duncans where both neck and bridge have the same N/S relationship so a bridge stud cancels hum with a neck screw? Or are they setup so a neck screw cancels with a bridge screw?

•Given an HH Super Strat setup with three pots that could all be push/pull... Obviously one should be assigned to Voice 1/2. One could use another for Coil Splitting both pickups. Would the third be better suited to HF Tilt or to selecting if Screws/Studs are split to? (Similar to a non-triple shot P-Rails wiring some do)

•Does Modern vs Classic change any of the answers above?

(Also, I see the single width for use with HSH and HSS is available now. Examining those diagrams makes me understand why it took a while to release, it's not as simple as slapping 2 of the Strats and a Humbucker in the same guitar. Some good through went into optimizing the HSS and HSH setups)

Thanks Frank, you're the man!

An afterthought, if coil splitting is an important part of your project consider the Devin Townsend set. They have been designed to split better than previous models as a result of Devin Townsend's particular requirements.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Where do they slot in tonally between the classics and moderns?

 

[Dusty.Rhoads]

Re: Two Fishman Fluence questions

Where do they slot in tonally between the classics and moderns?

Mr. Falbo would be much more qualified to answer that. I only have the Devin Townsend set, never played the others. Tech support at Fishman recommended the set based on my requirement for coil split. You can lay out specifically what you are trying to accomplish and they are very good at getting back quickly with thorough answers and any wiring docs you might need.