Two humbuckers in series with each other?

[Ace Flibble]

I'm wiring up a Tele with a Hot Rails in the bridge and a Swineshead AMP (kind of like a Stag Mag, but using Alnico V rods and about a third the output the Stag Mag has). I like the tones of each pickup on their own, but the middle position is currently a bit pointless, it just sounds like the neck pickup. I've noticed the same thing happen on a couple of my other guitars - I've done some research and apparently this is very normal, in the middle position when two humbuckers of very different outputs are wired parallel to each other the neck pickup dominates.
I read on a couple of places that a good way to get a different tone out of the middle position is to wire the two pickups in series with each other. So the 3-way pickup seletcor would be bridge pickup/both pickups in series with each other/neck pickup. However, I can't find a single diagram for this and I'm not too good at working out wiring myself. I know how to change a humbucker's coils between series and parallel, but I don't know how to wire two humbuckers to be in series on a 3-way. The SD site has the diagram for doing it on a 4-way (bridge/both in parallel/neck/both in series), but not how to do it on a 3-way.

Anyone know how this is done? For reference the Swineshead pickup has the usual 4-connector wire, and the switch I'm using is a normal Tele 3-way blade switch. The only other control on the guitar is a single volume control so no need to worry about other odd controls.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

I say: muddy mess if i remember well. Did that sometime in my early years (Oh my, that sounds like a boring old fart speaking.)

 

[Ace Flibble]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Well at the moment the middle position is completely going to waste because it's 99% the same as the neck position. So I figure I might as well try something different, the middle position isn't being useful anyway. On three of my guitars I have the middle position be an out of phase tone, which I use quite a lot, but I do already have three guitars like that, hence why I'm looking at series wiring.

 

[wolf]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Hi Ace
I know how to do this with toggles.
You mentioned a 4 way switch which I think Stew-Mac or someone else sells which can be done but I was never too happy with those 24 lug switches.
Basically, if you don't mind drilling holes in your guitar it could be easily done with 2 SPDT switches where you would get Neck Only, Bridge Only, Both in Parallel and Both in Series. And you wouldn't need the "slot switch" at all.
Here's a modification I did to a Stratocaster type guitar and this required 5 switches and these fit nicely into the slot:

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Edited to Add:
Two humbuckers in series are very muddy as others have said but it does produce a rather powerful sound for overdriving an amp.

 

[DepecheMoses]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

I saw a diagram a while back that had one coil from each pickup in series. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[wolf]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Hi DepecheMoses,
On this site www.1728.com/guitar6.htm you'll find a circuit whereby you can select any coil from any humbucker and put them in series/parallel with themselves or both. Well, it has six switches but it does a lot.
(Yes, that's my website. I'm not selling anything. It's just that lately it seems that the Seymour Duncan site has become very popular and it has great diagrams and so I figured I'd let some people know about other sites on the Internet).

 

[El CHupacabra]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

I just had a vision for someone with disposable income: an Invader and a Dimebucker in series....

 

[uOpt]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

What you generally want is one element that darkens sound and one element that brightens sound.

In-series is pretty useless because it's too dark. Out of phase is pretty useless because it's too thin.

Combine the two and you get a great cutting lead sound.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

What you generally want is one element that darkens sound and one element that brightens sound.

In-series is pretty useless because it's too dark. Out of phase is pretty useless because it's too thin.

Combine the two and you get a great cutting lead sound.

+1. That's half of the Jimmy Page system, the tone pot push-pulls, series and phase. Like uOpt said, a great sound.

It is possible to get nice tones with the PU's linked in series, IF the neck is in coil cut. But otherwise, two HB's are just too dark to be of any use.

With the Jimmy Page system, or parts of it, you can get some great sounds that you can't normally. Take a look at the diagram on this site. You can do parts of it with less than 4 pots.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Eurgh, I'm really against Page wiring or any other kind of system that uses push-pulls/push-push/mini toggles/etc. I like my controls to be simple, some of my guitars don't even have volume controls. That's why I stick to 3-ways too, though I was almost tempted to just use a two-way toggle at first. I also just plain don't want to start drilling into this guitar any more than I absolutely have to, the top is really nice and I'm pretty sloppy with tools...

Also the reason I'm thinking of the series combination is because the two pickups are so different. The Hot Rails is, well, a Hot Rails, you all know (or should know) what that's like. The AMP pickup is kind of halfway in tone between something like a Vintage Flat and a Quarter Pound single coil. It doesn't sound like a humbucker at all, it's basically a typical classic single coil tone but with just a little more bass response and hum-cancelling. So I'm figuring if two extremely different pickups can sound good in series, these two should be perfect for that application.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

If you don't want switches or push-pulls, what's this thread about?

 

[MikeS]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Yes, I agree that it will be incredibly powerful and muddy. IMO, usable clean to mild overdrive, useless under gain.

However, if you want to try it out for yourself, there are no special switches required; you can do neck/series/bridge with a fender 3-way switch (no other switches needed). It's not too difficult. If you can identify the common lug on each pole of the switch I can explain it without drawing a picture:

example, P1.2 refers to pole 1, second lug. "C" is the common lug. wire the two humbuckers in series with themselves (as you normally would any humbucker) then wire the switch like this:
P1.C - volume pot
P1.1 - Bridge pickup 'hot'
P1.2 - jumper to P1.1
P1.3 - Neck pickup 'hot'
P2.1 - to ground
P2.2 - jumper to P1.3
P2.3 - jumper to P2.1
P2.C - bridge pickup ground

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

There always used to be a schematic diagram amongst the Hints And Tips section of this website for obtaining series or parallel connection of Telecaster pickups in the centre position of its three-way selector switch. The circuit employed either a push-pull pot or a DPDT mini switch. The s/p switching only affected the centre position the selector switch.

With a little alteration, this schematic should also work for your pickup combination.

Personally, I'm siding with Hamerfan. Muddy mess. :disappoin

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

My MMM1 has a switch position that puts the two humbuckers in series (and another that puts them in series but out of phase). The in-series, in-phase position is actually perfectly usable - it's hot and thick but far from muddy.

The pickups in question are a pair of Q-tuners, which are pretty bright and clear and hi-fi sounding, which may have something to do with it.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

To me, a key to making that position work, besides complimentary pickups, is having two volume controls.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Okay, let me see if I've got this right:

I searched the forums and from what I can tell, on a normal 3-way the two comon lugs are at the top right and bottom left of the switch, as you look at it from below with 'top' being towards the neck.

So, using SD wiring colours:
The black wire from the bridge pickup (bridge hot) goes to pole 1 lug 1. Pole 1 lug 2 is connected to pole 1 lug 1.
The black wire form the neck pickup (neck hot) goes to pole 1 lug 3. Pole 2 lug 2 is connected to pole 1 lug 3.
Pole 1 lug C goes to the hot outpot tab of the volume pot.
Pole 2 lug 1 goes to the back of the volume pot (to ground). Pole 2 lug 3 is connected to pole 2 lug 1.

Now one bit I'm not sure on. The bridge ground goes to pole 2 lug C - would that be the green wire or the bare wire? As I understand it normally, black is hot, red and white get taped together (series link), both green and the bare wires go to ground. So in this wiring, would both the green and bare wires go to P2.C, or just one?

 

[MikeS]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Just the green wire. The bare wire is always soldered to a ground. I don't know the color codes for the Swineshead so I tried to keep things generic, but since the bridge is a Duncan, only the green wire goes to P2.C. The red and white will be soldered together and taped.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Well I've done it, and it sounds fantastic. Anyone who was saying it would be a 'muddy mess' - that isn't the case. It's sounding kind of like a really overwound P-90 minus hum. Got a lot of power to it - it's got more output than the Hot Rails on it's own - but still with an oddly high degree of clarity. I'm really liking it with minimal gain, it's got a kind of early Aerosmith vibe to it.

 

[wolf]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

Congrats to Ace
You were successful in the wiring and in the results.

Heck, I was one of the ones who said it wouldn't be muddy, but I'm not going to parade that fact around this forum. (heh heh heh)

 

[chill]

Re: Two humbuckers in series with each other?

First, good on you for trying it and finding something you like.

Another thing to consider are the Megaswitch P and E, which give you other series and parallel connections.