Diminished Triad
New member
Why so expensive - roughly double the price of the leading manufacturers (Fender, Marshall, etc).
Thanks!
Thanks!
Two Rock?
- Thread starter Diminished Triad
- Start date
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
Re: Two Rock?
Overpriced amps.... same reason why I don't touch boutique remakes of classic amps.
Some people may have the spare money and like the way they sound so whatever floats your boat I guess, I'll just stick with my 1 grand Mesa/Boogie
Overpriced amps.... same reason why I don't touch boutique remakes of classic amps.
Some people may have the spare money and like the way they sound so whatever floats your boat I guess, I'll just stick with my 1 grand Mesa/Boogie
Diminished Triad
New member
Re: Two Rock?
Amazing how the amp market allows them to exist with those prices.....especially at low volume if very few find worthwhile. Have never heard one.........have heard Mesas and hope to own and play a Mesa....one of these days!
No Two Rock fans out there? :scratchch
Amazing how the amp market allows them to exist with those prices.....especially at low volume if very few find worthwhile. Have never heard one.........have heard Mesas and hope to own and play a Mesa....one of these days!
No Two Rock fans out there? :scratchch
LReese
Sausage Gravy
Re: Two Rock?
Overpriced compared to what? AFAIK, Two-rock specializes in "Based on Dumble" amps. All I see in that category is expensive. If that type of amp floats your boat, I guess its worth the price.
FWIW, I own a Fuchs Overdrive Supreme, another Dumble based amp.
Overpriced compared to what? AFAIK, Two-rock specializes in "Based on Dumble" amps. All I see in that category is expensive. If that type of amp floats your boat, I guess its worth the price.
FWIW, I own a Fuchs Overdrive Supreme, another Dumble based amp.
Last edited:
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
Re: Two Rock?
I'm not dissing anyone who owns a Two Rock or dumble based amp I just think anything over 2 grand for an amp is ridiculous unless it is vintage or a collectable.. Just my .02 on them
I'm not dissing anyone who owns a Two Rock or dumble based amp I just think anything over 2 grand for an amp is ridiculous unless it is vintage or a collectable.. Just my .02 on them
k:
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
vinta9e
New member
Re: Two Rock?
I'd rather get by on bread and water for a year just to afford a two rock, than buy a mesa.
Most probably that won't happen though, since I am a metalhead. Oh, how lucky.
What I call "ridiculous" is the amount of knobs on boogies, the need to be led by hand through the owners' manual just to learn how to tweak them (hey, I've got better things to do than spend time reading propaganda from a patent troll who can't play crap on a guitar), the treble that either isn't there at all, or sounds like two skeletons shagging on a sheet metal roof, the bias circuit, the mesa engineers idea of 'british tone', fitting a tube rectifier into a high gain head, their russian tube rebranding, their belief that you could fit every tone imaginable into a single amp, and last but not least, their amps' blunt picking feel especially in relation to the price.
That's not to say I haven't ever played a single boogie that was alright according to my very own honest opinion; or that I haven't managed to successfully and quickly dial in a 3ch Dual Rec for a guitarist that got stuck in traffic once. That's not to say there isn't a massive amount of talented people who swear by their boogie amps, and sound great using them. But I still hold the opinion that boogies usually don't live up to the hype, and that 'versatile' is the opposite of 'thoroughbred', of which I have learned to appreciate the latter. Either way, whichever you choose, you are making a compromise, since that seems to be the very essence of design in a general sense, doesn't it?
That is absolutely not to say that I am proclaiming myself the Ultimate Know It All Of All the Internet Deep and Wide, but only that I know what I like and desire and what I hate. Most professional musicians are well aware of their needs, too. You know, opinions are like shoes. Mine might be an old, worn and stinky mess of fabric and rubber that once left a third world sweatshop while yours might be a slick shiny pair of exemplary artisan craft in snakeskin. But I'll still wear mine nonetheless.
You could call Aston Martins "overpriced" as well, but to a sheikh, they might fall into the cheap toys category.
Sorry if what I'm about to say sounds harsh to you, Diminished Triad, but I think truth isn't usually peachy. Do not take my words too personal but try to learn from them instead. You see, if I were a boutique builder, the last thing I would need and want, would be extravagant amateurs playing my amps. I would do my best to make sure my amps only reach the most talented guys, in whose hands guitars sing like horny mermaids, rather than put my professional reputation at stake when a loaded hack noodles mindlessly in public with my name written on the amp in his background.
That's one reason why I find Mr Dumble a very clever man.
I'd rather get by on bread and water for a year just to afford a two rock, than buy a mesa.
Most probably that won't happen though, since I am a metalhead. Oh, how lucky.
What I call "ridiculous" is the amount of knobs on boogies, the need to be led by hand through the owners' manual just to learn how to tweak them (hey, I've got better things to do than spend time reading propaganda from a patent troll who can't play crap on a guitar), the treble that either isn't there at all, or sounds like two skeletons shagging on a sheet metal roof, the bias circuit, the mesa engineers idea of 'british tone', fitting a tube rectifier into a high gain head, their russian tube rebranding, their belief that you could fit every tone imaginable into a single amp, and last but not least, their amps' blunt picking feel especially in relation to the price.
That's not to say I haven't ever played a single boogie that was alright according to my very own honest opinion; or that I haven't managed to successfully and quickly dial in a 3ch Dual Rec for a guitarist that got stuck in traffic once. That's not to say there isn't a massive amount of talented people who swear by their boogie amps, and sound great using them. But I still hold the opinion that boogies usually don't live up to the hype, and that 'versatile' is the opposite of 'thoroughbred', of which I have learned to appreciate the latter. Either way, whichever you choose, you are making a compromise, since that seems to be the very essence of design in a general sense, doesn't it?
That is absolutely not to say that I am proclaiming myself the Ultimate Know It All Of All the Internet Deep and Wide, but only that I know what I like and desire and what I hate. Most professional musicians are well aware of their needs, too. You know, opinions are like shoes. Mine might be an old, worn and stinky mess of fabric and rubber that once left a third world sweatshop while yours might be a slick shiny pair of exemplary artisan craft in snakeskin. But I'll still wear mine nonetheless.
You could call Aston Martins "overpriced" as well, but to a sheikh, they might fall into the cheap toys category.
Sorry if what I'm about to say sounds harsh to you, Diminished Triad, but I think truth isn't usually peachy. Do not take my words too personal but try to learn from them instead. You see, if I were a boutique builder, the last thing I would need and want, would be extravagant amateurs playing my amps. I would do my best to make sure my amps only reach the most talented guys, in whose hands guitars sing like horny mermaids, rather than put my professional reputation at stake when a loaded hack noodles mindlessly in public with my name written on the amp in his background.
That's one reason why I find Mr Dumble a very clever man.
Jolly_Rancher
New member
Re: Two Rock?
John Mayer uses a Two-Rock, although it's probably an older P2P amp... I'm guessing.
I believe the new Two-Rocks are PCB bull****, just like the new Mesas. I wouldn't bother with either one. You see, Two-Rock was basically bought out - they sold out. While Mesa is still owned by the same guys, they've sold out in a way, as well. If I had all the money in the world and wanted a Dual Rectifier type sound, I'd probably go with the Carol Ann Triptik, but since I'm not going to be spending over $3k on a new head anytime soon, I haven't looked into them very deeply. I know that 65 Amps makes a really, honestly amazing amplifier.
John Mayer uses a Two-Rock, although it's probably an older P2P amp... I'm guessing.
I believe the new Two-Rocks are PCB bull****, just like the new Mesas. I wouldn't bother with either one. You see, Two-Rock was basically bought out - they sold out. While Mesa is still owned by the same guys, they've sold out in a way, as well. If I had all the money in the world and wanted a Dual Rectifier type sound, I'd probably go with the Carol Ann Triptik, but since I'm not going to be spending over $3k on a new head anytime soon, I haven't looked into them very deeply. I know that 65 Amps makes a really, honestly amazing amplifier.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Two Rock?
You do know that Jim Marshall was a drummer right? Leo Fender wasnt even a musician... So why is it a huge crime from Randall Smith?
You do know that Jim Marshall was a drummer right? Leo Fender wasnt even a musician... So why is it a huge crime from Randall Smith?
LReese
Sausage Gravy
Re: Two Rock?
With PCB - its all in the execution. My Fuchs is PCB. Got a few Mesa pieces that are PCB. All of my Fenders (except a reverb tank) are tag board, even the reissues.
Quality and road worthiness can be designed into a PCB amp but that's extra $$.
That being said, I remember ribbon cables used on the Mark 5. For a Fender price point, OK, not Mesa. Might be perfectly sound but it raises a red flag.
With PCB - its all in the execution. My Fuchs is PCB. Got a few Mesa pieces that are PCB. All of my Fenders (except a reverb tank) are tag board, even the reissues.
Quality and road worthiness can be designed into a PCB amp but that's extra $$.
That being said, I remember ribbon cables used on the Mark 5. For a Fender price point, OK, not Mesa. Might be perfectly sound but it raises a red flag.
Jolly_Rancher
New member
Re: Two Rock?
Yeah agreed - it definitely raises a red flag, and having played both old style PCB-based Mesas and new ribbon cabled models in the same room with same guitar, it makes a sonic difference. THD makes reallllllly nice PCB-based amps, and I know this. Fuchs sound great, although I don't think I'd invest in one... I like Andy, but not sure about all the PCB nonsense.
Yeah agreed - it definitely raises a red flag, and having played both old style PCB-based Mesas and new ribbon cabled models in the same room with same guitar, it makes a sonic difference. THD makes reallllllly nice PCB-based amps, and I know this. Fuchs sound great, although I don't think I'd invest in one... I like Andy, but not sure about all the PCB nonsense.
aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: Two Rock?
I'm a Two Rock fan. The only reason I don't still own an Emerald is because an AxeFx suited my needs better and I couldn't afford to keep both at the time. Far and away the favorite tube amp of all I've owned. That list includes:
I'm not about to debate the merits of point-to-point wiring vs. PCB but there's no question that PTP costs more to build than PCB. If the amp you want is PTP, be prepared to pay a premium. Nobody needs a PTP amp but except for those who use it to earn their livelihood, nobody needs a PCB amp, either. :scratchch
I'm a Two Rock fan. The only reason I don't still own an Emerald is because an AxeFx suited my needs better and I couldn't afford to keep both at the time. Far and away the favorite tube amp of all I've owned. That list includes:
- Rivera Rake
- Koch Multitone
- Fuchs Modded Traynor
- Soldano Decatone
- Soldano Hot Rod 50
- Peters 3CP1
I'm not about to debate the merits of point-to-point wiring vs. PCB but there's no question that PTP costs more to build than PCB. If the amp you want is PTP, be prepared to pay a premium. Nobody needs a PTP amp but except for those who use it to earn their livelihood, nobody needs a PCB amp, either. :scratchch
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
Re: Two Rock?
wow you guys worry too much about PCB and all that sh*t.... just buy an amp that sounds good and play the hell outta it....:smack:
Have a good one folks
wow you guys worry too much about PCB and all that sh*t.... just buy an amp that sounds good and play the hell outta it....:smack:
Have a good one folks
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
Ascension
Well-known member
Re: Two Rock?
Depends on how it sounds and if it is reliable. My little 25 watt Zinky Velvet runs around $1600 or so new with a footswitch and the cover. It is worth every cent to me as a gigging working players rig. I never have to worry about it not being reliable as long as I maintain it like i should it sounds fantastic and does every thing I need it to do. Amps for those of us who are working player are our tools for our trade nothing more nothing less and $2K is not so much to pay in the grand scheme for the right tool for the job!
PS the Zinky is a PCB amp.
Depends on how it sounds and if it is reliable. My little 25 watt Zinky Velvet runs around $1600 or so new with a footswitch and the cover. It is worth every cent to me as a gigging working players rig. I never have to worry about it not being reliable as long as I maintain it like i should it sounds fantastic and does every thing I need it to do. Amps for those of us who are working player are our tools for our trade nothing more nothing less and $2K is not so much to pay in the grand scheme for the right tool for the job!
PS the Zinky is a PCB amp.
Last edited:
SongsForTheDeaf
New member
Re: Two Rock?
That is a good valid point. Reliability is a big thing too but then again my brother has gigged and recorded with his Fender 4x10 deville for years now without even a tube change and it has had no problems knock on wood and it sounds great still. It all depends I guess but I see what you are saying. I paid 1 grand for my Mesa Boogie LSS 4x10 used and I love it so much that I sold all my other amps for spare money since I rarely used them so I guess once you find what suits you go for it.
That is a good valid point. Reliability is a big thing too but then again my brother has gigged and recorded with his Fender 4x10 deville for years now without even a tube change and it has had no problems knock on wood and it sounds great still. It all depends I guess but I see what you are saying. I paid 1 grand for my Mesa Boogie LSS 4x10 used and I love it so much that I sold all my other amps for spare money since I rarely used them so I guess once you find what suits you go for it.
vinta9e
New member
Re: Two Rock?
Well, since I've been called to answer the question:
Betcha. Must have been a good one to boot, if he really taught Mitch Mitchell. Weren't those early Marshalls a rather direct implementation of RCA tube manual circuits? If that is the case, here's what I think about the whole matter:
It took me about 15 years to realize that the tone in my head I had thought was pure Marshall, in fact wasn't. No, wait, it was a Marshall until Mark Cameron fixed it! Imagine a VW beetle shell, affixed to a frame that came from a four wheel drive mitsubishi. Now is it still Ferry Porsche's work? Yeah, well, kind of, but it isn't at the same time, it's a whole different animal; it may look like a beetle, but it won't drive like a beetle nor sound like a beetle.
From that particular point of view, the work of Jim Marshall would be about as relevant to the essence of the beast, as trying to figure out how the wheel ever came to be invented while deciding on a set of rims for what was once a plain ol' beetle. Sure, that's where it all started :duh: it's a fact but a trivial one.
Now I just really want to say hi to the resident dinosaur because of all this prehistoric rambling. I feel as competent in the field of old Marshalls as in spacewalking.
I don't believe in holy cows and besides that, huge crime is an overstatement. You can't please everyone, and I really, in all honesty, doubt Randall Smith will ever read whatever words my fingers tapped on the keyboard. If he actually does, I suspect he might feel compelled to do as much about it, as knocking a fart, lol.
One of the most important thing about amps IMO, is how they feel. Now how do I go on about explaining what my fingertips feel to someone who doesn't know what I am talking about?
Did I get my point across?
I do hate them ribbon cables, too. I'll ignore them in a Peavey. But upon opening a high dollar hand built amp, I expect to see unicorns throwing up rainbows, and not something that looks like it used to belong in a computer.
Oh, isn't the Mark 5 chassis quite a bit narrower than say a recto? If yeah, then it becomes a bit of a tough case, since there's about a truckload and a half of knobs, toggles and leds squeezed onto that panel. Hooking up all of these gimmicks with individual cables would probably take a week and cost a grand alone, so why fancy that, if the crowd's gonna yell 'overpriced'?
I'm basically suggesting that ribbons might just be a good way to execute such a complicated amp, but then what do I know...
I wonder how many Mk5 owners ever took a peek inside, besides LReese. Here's a completely useless and hardly related insight: I found out that most Polish Ibanez owners never took the neck off their sticks. I suspect you Americans are probably a good bit more exploring than us... bok-bok-bok-bok!
Since I'm on the topic of guts, I think I've once discovered a ground loop on the Soldano HR50 circuit board while rebuilding one. Peculiar, but since said amp does not hum, hiss nor oscillate even when all the knobs are set fully clockwise, it's kind of difficult to present it as a major flaw. Maybe that's just how you troll people dismantling your amps. I can't help Steve Fryette's pcb mount sockets rant jumping into my mind, hehehe...
Personally, I don't mind pcb construction. Not at all, unless the copper layer is so flimsy thin that it delaminates upon just touching with an iron. Point-to-point take modding/rebuilding efforts better, and that is their main advantage, in my humble opinion.
Uhhh em, so... this was supposed to be a thread on Two Rock. I guess Diminished Triad might already plot to cut me off the interwebs for me repeatedly derailing his threads... You know what? If it's too expensive, it's too expensive. Not a reason to worry, really. Nobody can afford everything they could possibly dream of, probably not even sheikhs. So, instead of searching for unobtainium, I suggest that you listen to the tone in your head, find out what makes it happen and play it like you stole it.
Well, since I've been called to answer the question:
Betcha. Must have been a good one to boot, if he really taught Mitch Mitchell. Weren't those early Marshalls a rather direct implementation of RCA tube manual circuits? If that is the case, here's what I think about the whole matter:
It took me about 15 years to realize that the tone in my head I had thought was pure Marshall, in fact wasn't. No, wait, it was a Marshall until Mark Cameron fixed it! Imagine a VW beetle shell, affixed to a frame that came from a four wheel drive mitsubishi. Now is it still Ferry Porsche's work? Yeah, well, kind of, but it isn't at the same time, it's a whole different animal; it may look like a beetle, but it won't drive like a beetle nor sound like a beetle.
From that particular point of view, the work of Jim Marshall would be about as relevant to the essence of the beast, as trying to figure out how the wheel ever came to be invented while deciding on a set of rims for what was once a plain ol' beetle. Sure, that's where it all started :duh: it's a fact but a trivial one.
Now I just really want to say hi to the resident dinosaur because of all this prehistoric rambling. I feel as competent in the field of old Marshalls as in spacewalking.
That's correct, again. I think Leo Fender was a full-time genius, even though his ideas weren't really as groundbreaking as we're told. Or were they?
I don't believe in holy cows and besides that, huge crime is an overstatement. You can't please everyone, and I really, in all honesty, doubt Randall Smith will ever read whatever words my fingers tapped on the keyboard. If he actually does, I suspect he might feel compelled to do as much about it, as knocking a fart, lol.
One of the most important thing about amps IMO, is how they feel. Now how do I go on about explaining what my fingertips feel to someone who doesn't know what I am talking about?
Did I get my point across?
I do hate them ribbon cables, too. I'll ignore them in a Peavey. But upon opening a high dollar hand built amp, I expect to see unicorns throwing up rainbows, and not something that looks like it used to belong in a computer.
Oh, isn't the Mark 5 chassis quite a bit narrower than say a recto? If yeah, then it becomes a bit of a tough case, since there's about a truckload and a half of knobs, toggles and leds squeezed onto that panel. Hooking up all of these gimmicks with individual cables would probably take a week and cost a grand alone, so why fancy that, if the crowd's gonna yell 'overpriced'?
I'm basically suggesting that ribbons might just be a good way to execute such a complicated amp, but then what do I know...
I wonder how many Mk5 owners ever took a peek inside, besides LReese. Here's a completely useless and hardly related insight: I found out that most Polish Ibanez owners never took the neck off their sticks. I suspect you Americans are probably a good bit more exploring than us... bok-bok-bok-bok!
Since I'm on the topic of guts, I think I've once discovered a ground loop on the Soldano HR50 circuit board while rebuilding one. Peculiar, but since said amp does not hum, hiss nor oscillate even when all the knobs are set fully clockwise, it's kind of difficult to present it as a major flaw. Maybe that's just how you troll people dismantling your amps. I can't help Steve Fryette's pcb mount sockets rant jumping into my mind, hehehe...
Personally, I don't mind pcb construction. Not at all, unless the copper layer is so flimsy thin that it delaminates upon just touching with an iron. Point-to-point take modding/rebuilding efforts better, and that is their main advantage, in my humble opinion.
Uhhh em, so... this was supposed to be a thread on Two Rock. I guess Diminished Triad might already plot to cut me off the interwebs for me repeatedly derailing his threads... You know what? If it's too expensive, it's too expensive. Not a reason to worry, really. Nobody can afford everything they could possibly dream of, probably not even sheikhs. So, instead of searching for unobtainium, I suggest that you listen to the tone in your head, find out what makes it happen and play it like you stole it.
Similar threads
