Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

Tone-Analyst

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I've been doing tests lately between regular slugs and hex (grub) screws. I realise two identical coils cancel hum best, but also cancel alot of majic high frequencies. Pickups like the Super Distortion have very little harmonics or high-end definition. Both coils must have a difference in number of turns (or wire gauge [dual-resonance]) or different screws/slugs. Otherwise the pickup will sound like a brick (imo).

Another thing also is the notion that hex screws sound just like slugs except they're adjustable... sorry they don't. They sound less full, more hollow and bright. They probably diffuse the magnetic field very differently at the top.

More testing to come between classic fillister screws and socket cap hex screws
 
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Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

This wisdom is irrelevant if you don't know the material specs. You can't compare 1215 slugs with 1010 hexes.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

This wisdom is irrelevant if you don't know the material specs. You can't compare 1215 slugs with 1010 hexes.

Using Gibson slugs out of a Classic 57 and Dimarzio hex grub screws. Totally standard stuff. Also the guitar has full switches that isolate either coils, to see the effect in individual coils and also in normal series configuration.
 
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Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I don’t know who is saying this about hex screws. I use the Seymour Duncan type though and not the dimarzio headless hex screws so it’s probably among DMZ users.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

Two rows of allen screws "kill" clarity because they are longer, not because of some fancy smancy canceling of the highs. Replace one row of allens with hexs and see how it sounds. It will sound brighter. Replace the other row so that both rows are hexs, and it will be brighter still.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

Hex is a synonym for allen.

And no, you're incorrect about the shape of the screw not affecting the sound. I've compared hexz and filisters of the same length.
 
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Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I just got off work, my brain is currently dead. I meant fillister, which are usually longer than hex screws. And many times of a different composition.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I have DiMarzio Ionizers in my 8 string. All 3 (H-S-H) are identical hex screw poles. All three are very clear with plenty of high end.

Maybe all the extra switches are causing issues.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I swapped the fillisters in my pickup for hex screws that are just 1/8 inch shorter and they are brighter. Most people say that the head of the screw doesn’t change things much except for the invader caps but the length does.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I've been doing tests lately between regular slugs and hex (grub) screws. I realise two identical coils cancel tone best, but also cancel alot of majic high frequencies. Pickups like the Super Distortion have very little harmonics or high-end definition. Both coils must have a difference in number of turns (or wire gauge [dual-resonance]) or different screws/slugs. Otherwise the pickup will sound like a brick (imo).

Another thing also is the notion that hex screws sound just like slugs except they're adjustable... sorry they don't. They sound less full, more hollow and bright. They probably diffuse the magnetic field very differently at the top.

More testing to come between classic fillister screws and socket cap hex screws

The sonic difference between hex screws and slugs/filister is a can of worms that I'll prudently avoid to dig... Granted, this question involves relatively clear principles if we consider them isolately (less mass = less inductance, less lenght protuding below the baseplate = less Foucault currents) but there's other variables at work and on the basis of our own experiments, I don't find easy to clarify the intricated causes of tonal changes.
EDIT - For example, we've noticed and measured with lab gear a difference between plated and unplated screw poles meant to be made of a same alloy. But was it effectively the same alloy? We'd have to do a destructive lab analysis to know it. "The devil is in the details". :-)

Now, I see what you mean about strictly identical BOBBINS (= same coils on same frames and same poles) as impacting the high range: IME (and all other parms being equal), such a symetry tends to diminish the secondary resonant peaks produced by some other designs and, therefore, flattens the upper harmonics. That's probably why DiMarzio patented the Dual-Resonance thing, after all. :-)

If I can share a few things as footnotes, here we go:

1-even with hex poles, unscrewing the poles of a few mm on one row (in one coil) only is still a way to recreate an assymetry between bobbins : it changes the relationship of the humbucker with the strings and the inductance of the related coil (it's funny to unscrew the poles of a P.A.F. style humbucker and to see its inductance rising progressively, while this inductance will drop as soon as the poles are screwed down);

2-The stray capacitance of 4 wires cables contributes to create "Dual-Resonance" by increasing the capacitive mismatching between coils... And it's possible to take advantage of this feature. Gibson did it radically with the "fat tap" thingy but it's not forbidden to connect a LOW VALUE capacitor to ground at the junction between coils and to obtain a "Dual-Resonance" affecting the upper harmonics. With a generic humbucker, a 270pF cap, for instance, would create a dip in the response around 8khz and generate a secondary peak around 10khz, giving more sparkle (unless we keep the longest possible quantity of 4 wires cable in the guitar since such a cable is itself a tubular assortement of low value caps. LOL).

Non limitative list of possible solutions against the "brick syndrome". FWIW. :-))
 
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Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

do we hear much 10k through a guitar amp?
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

It's ****ing easy as hell to hear the difference between slugs, filisters, mushrooms, and hexs. Stop being dorks.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

do we hear much 10k through a guitar amp?

I had once to correct an assymetrical humbucker design whose secondary peak was between 11 and 13 khz: the clean tone really suffered of a tiring drone effect through a Fender tube amp or a JC120. So my own answer is yes, it's possible to hear much 10khz content (and even too much in the case that I evoke. LOL).
Let's not forget that the EQ of a typical guitar amp scoops the mids when the controls are at noon and promotes high frequencies accordingly... Now, if we set the mids full up while the bass and treble are zeroed, the response will be flat and high pitched harmonics will effectively become way less noticeable... :-)
 
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Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

i was thinking about the frequency response of most guitar speakers, im surprised they produce much content that high
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

i was thinking about the frequency response of most guitar speakers, im surprised they produce much content that high

When I'll have enough free time, I'll post a link regarding an offending secondary resonant peak heard through a bright amp. See ya, so!
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

I have DiMarzio Ionizers in my 8 string. All 3 (H-S-H) are identical hex screw poles. All three are very clear with plenty of high end.
Maybe all the extra switches are causing issues.

Your pickups probably have mismatched coils instead, or dual resonance which is the same number of turns but different gauge wire.

All I was saying really is if you have matched coils and identical screw types for both coil, (like Dimarzio Breed, Super Dist, Ibanez F1...) that chances are your sound may be dark, and a solution may be to swap one row for another type of screw. I'll post a Youtube video soon about this. I'm loading up a pickup with different types.
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

Just for reference, not all hex top screws are the same:

5-40 Cap-head hex screws can replace filisters.

#10 Hex set screws replace .187 steel slugs.

20190813_171150.jpg
 
Re: Two rows of identical allen screws kill clarity..

Material (type of steel alloy), length, head shape and mass all have effects on the resulting sound and response of the pickup.

I think the thread title is a little extreme

Oh, and the only way a comparison would hold any value is if all the pole pieces and/or slugs you use are made of the same alloy and tested in the same coils without any change in height adjustment of the pickup or distance of the poles to the strings. Good luck with that!
 
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