ToneFiddler
New member
Jazz Blues is a real good one 
almost as good as evenly voiced harmonics
almost as good as evenly voiced harmonics
Two SH-2b's at the same time? Is this a bad idea?
- Thread starter BMKE
- Start date
freefrog
Well-known member
For the record: in the AS73 model as I know it , original pickups are voiced a bit like a Duncan SH4/SH2 set... with a bridge PU whose DCR is twice higher than for the neck unit.
These are not bad pickups: just really generic with their brass baseplates & ceramic mags... but the covers added over these things are not transparent at all and simply ruin their tone (IOW: pulling off these covers then fitting each pickup with a NS baseplate + an AlNico mag should noticeably improve the stock transducers).
These are not bad pickups: just really generic with their brass baseplates & ceramic mags... but the covers added over these things are not transparent at all and simply ruin their tone (IOW: pulling off these covers then fitting each pickup with a NS baseplate + an AlNico mag should noticeably improve the stock transducers).
Freefrog, I find the stock pickups just ok. They aren't terrible, but they remind me of 90s/2000s Epiphone LP pickups: workable but nothing to love. I'm not sure I'm adventurous enough to do that much to the stock ones. I'm more likely to just replace them. That is to say, have them replaced. I'm dismal with a soldering iron. I solder like a four year old writes the alphabet, with the letters totally different sizes, some are backwards, etc.
That said, I'd like to learn to solder well but I don't even know where one goes to learn such a thing. Seems like most people learned from family members or such. Also, I have reservation about trying to learn on a semi-hollow and have to work through the f-holes. ha.
That said, I'd like to learn to solder well but I don't even know where one goes to learn such a thing. Seems like most people learned from family members or such. Also, I have reservation about trying to learn on a semi-hollow and have to work through the f-holes. ha.
Above, ToneFiddler mentioned that the jazz pickups are basically the Alnico II Pro but with an alnico 5 magnet. Are the Alnico II's basically a potted version of the Seth Lover?
I realize this is tangential to the original question, but I just thought I'd ask. I'm still trying to understand pickups better than I do.
I realize this is tangential to the original question, but I just thought I'd ask. I'm still trying to understand pickups better than I do.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
No, Seths are totally different. Seths are wound and constructed to the original Seth Lover patent. The Alnico 2 Pro and Jazz are the same coil winds as each other with different magnets; Alnico 2 for the Alnico 2 pro, and Alnico 5 for the Jazz. While arguably another flavor of PAF-type pickup, they are not the same coils as a Seth Lover set.
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ToneFiddler
New member
Seth and A2P/Jazz use the same wire size, but the wire insulation material and/or thickness is different.
Enamel vs poly.
but there are other factors like:
number of turns.
turns per layer
and tension
…
Enamel vs poly.
but there are other factors like:
number of turns.
turns per layer
and tension
…
eclecticsynergy
Well-known member
Jazz neck with a 59 bridge is a good combination too. 59B has a more vintage-bluesy feel than the JazzB.
freefrog
Well-known member
Just to be clear: I wasn't recommending to mod the existing pickups instead of changing them. Just stated what is the main problem with the stock one IME : their covers. Suggestively, Epi stock humbuckers tend to suffer of the same issue, due to materials... Epiphone drastically improved their PU's between the all wrong humbuckers with "fake screw poles" mounted in the 90's and the recent ones with AlNiCo mags... but they still mount tone ruining covers. Same thing for Ibz, apparently.
Anecdotically: I've "recycled" the bridge PU of an AS73 by boiling its coils (in order to get rid of the wax once the PU uncovered) then fitting it with a NS baseplate + a 4 conductors cable + a Ceramic mag borrowed to a Duncan Custom. The result was surprising. Much better than I would have bet. Suggests that coils, slugs, screw poles and keeper bar are not sub-par like the cover is/was.
About soldering: I solder for decades and have still bad days (yesterday, I had to resolder the ground wire of a Tele single coil three times before to get it right).
But you're right, working on the electronics of a semi-hollow is annoying as hell.
Does anyone have any examples of the Jazz bridge with an overdrive/lower-gain distortion type of a sound that they could point me to. I was going through old forums and found some high-gain examples and clean but nothing in between. As I usually play in that middle zone, it might be smart of me to seek out examples.
So, I'm sinking further down the rabbit hole. I was expecting to do a set of push-pulls for coil splitting, should I be considering Triple Shots? If so, does anyone have an opinion whether I should use the Triple Shots in conjunction with a push-pull for phase? Am I getting ridiculous here? Still thinking the Jazz n/b; but entertaining other ideas like the '59 set, Alnico II pro, or Jazz w '59/custom hybrid in the bridge.
Well, I think the thing is...do you just want a ton of sounds? Or are you looking for very specific sounds? You might wire everything up and realize you just like a few of them. Triple Shots are a blast, but I used mine to figure out the sounds I liked. It turned out to be specific coils from each humbucker. I didn't like the parallel sounds (and I had already figured out I don't like out of phase sounds).
freefrog
Well-known member
Not tried Triple Shots in an AS73 but they should be easier to mount than push-pull pots. And if you want a PP for OOP tones, changing one of the pots close to the F-Hole (IOW: one of the volume controls) would make the job quicker too. I'd also change the stock 3 positions switch for a switchcraft, BTW.
I've no experience with OOP in an AS73 but I've fitted one with a VariTone and one of the VariTone positions gives bass scooped sounds very close to OOP. Sounds good IME/IMHO in this model. The last paragraph below should explain why.
About parallel wiring: it makes more sense with a powerful HB than with a "normal" one. A SH4 in parallel has almost the inductance of a Filter'Tron and therefore something of the related tone. Might be interesting if the idea is to come back and forth between a beefy bridge tone and a vintage one a la Chet Atkins.
But a Gibson style HB wound @ 8k or less often ends with an inductance under 1H once in parallel and it makes the sound very weak/ thin. Now, it might work in your guitar, who knows? See below.
On pickups: I would not mount Alnico Pro's in an AS73. Because of their typical EQing curve and despite of their higher quality, they'd potentially sound like two versions of the stock neck pickup. Same thing about the hybrid: not a pickup for bassy and low mid heavy guitars, IME/IMHO (characters that AS73's as I know them tend to exhibit for structural reasons). SH1's? I've tried a pair of vintage ones, briefly, in an AS73. Albeit they were tighter sounding than current production SH1's, they were still a tad too thick for this model. To me, it really shines with more low-mid scooped and "peakier" humbuckers.
But "one man's trash is another man's gold" and all guitars are different so maybe this answer is useless. Do what you want and be happy.
Realistically, I think my interest in the Triple Shot is move novelty than anything else. I assume that any cost savings in the easier install is made up by the cost of the devices (I'm going to have my local shop do the install). Likely, I'll find one sound that I like (within the myriad of options, but outside of "normal" sounds) and use that, ignoring the rest. But who knows? I like the idea of being to select which coil one is using. The parallel thing, judging from the videos I've seen (to be taken with salt, of course), doesn't do much for me.
I hadn't considered the OOP thing until I came across the Green Magic pickups. I watched the video comparing the '59 vs the GM and I liked the 59 better in all positions EXCEPT that I liked the quacky-OOP thing. Which got me thinking "is it possible to get a similar sound out of a different set of pickups."
As far as the AS73 goes, I was cross-shopping against 335s and 339s with the 339 being my second choice (though I tried any thin-line semi I could get my hands on). The Ibanezes (AS and AM series) consistently seemed to have a more "resonant" sound than the Epis which were consistently "duller" but not in a bad way, just different. My specific Ibanez's neck pickup is definitely overly bass-y and boomy but I"m not sure how much of that is inherent in the guitars design and how much is the pups. I bought the guitar with no intention of keeping the stock pickups. Mostly on principle. Getting an entry/entry-mid guitar, the first place they skimp is pickups.
Freefrog, is there a pickup combination that fits the "more low-mid scooped and "peakier" humbuckers" that you would suggest? Would that be the SH-2s? Also, not sure if it's worth mentioning but my favorite amp setting is just on the edge of break-up where a little hard playing pushes into OD and lighter "clean-ish".
I hadn't considered the OOP thing until I came across the Green Magic pickups. I watched the video comparing the '59 vs the GM and I liked the 59 better in all positions EXCEPT that I liked the quacky-OOP thing. Which got me thinking "is it possible to get a similar sound out of a different set of pickups."
As far as the AS73 goes, I was cross-shopping against 335s and 339s with the 339 being my second choice (though I tried any thin-line semi I could get my hands on). The Ibanezes (AS and AM series) consistently seemed to have a more "resonant" sound than the Epis which were consistently "duller" but not in a bad way, just different. My specific Ibanez's neck pickup is definitely overly bass-y and boomy but I"m not sure how much of that is inherent in the guitars design and how much is the pups. I bought the guitar with no intention of keeping the stock pickups. Mostly on principle. Getting an entry/entry-mid guitar, the first place they skimp is pickups.
Freefrog, is there a pickup combination that fits the "more low-mid scooped and "peakier" humbuckers" that you would suggest? Would that be the SH-2s? Also, not sure if it's worth mentioning but my favorite amp setting is just on the edge of break-up where a little hard playing pushes into OD and lighter "clean-ish".
freefrog
Well-known member
Both IMHO and on the basis of my experience with the same instrument. I've technical measurements about that if necessary.
Yes, I was describing the SH2's - or any pickup in the line of Gibson T-Tops, with which SH2's have much in common IMHO. Once again, I've tech data to share about that if needed.
The last set that I've mounted in an AS73 was a pair of unpotted chrome covered boutique P.A.F. clones that I've patiently "tuned" by changing their magnets and screw poles... It sounds simply stellar but that's not something that I would recommend, knowing the current price of these PU's ( $650 for a new a set from the winder himself; those that I've mounted had been paid less than 1/4 of this price as a 2d hand pair, years ago).
Good luck in your choice...
Freefrog, one other question: if I do the triple shot rings, would you suggest getting flat ones? As you have some experience with the AS73, I figured I'd ask. Based on the other thread re TS on a 339 (where people recommended flat) I figuring that is similar to the AS. Your thoughts?
