U know what I hate?

[ACH91332]

Whenever a guy on the Dimarzio forum goes and says "magnets do not have an specific sound" or "don't alter tone". Do they only play Dimarzios?! Has anyone ever heard of the Duncan Custom line? Or the JB and DD?

Sorry for the rant but I just don't understand how someone can say magnets do not alter tone when they do so much. Sure the wind is the most important part of the pickup but the magnet matters too. If magnets didn't matter all pickups would use ceramics because they are cheaper nuff said.

If anyone has anything they want to say please do.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: U know what I hate?

ya know

some people are just special
ya can't tell em that they are special
cuz they just get mad

they don't think they are special
no matter how much empirical proof you present to them
that says that they are, in fact, special
they won't believe it

you know why?



cuz they're special

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: U know what I hate?

I wouldnt exactly call Bll lawrence "retarded";
QUOTE-"When I read that ceramic magnets sound harsh and alnico magnets sound sweet, I ask myself, " Who the hell preaches such nonsense?" There are harsh-sounding pickups with alnico magnets and sweet-sounding pickups with ceramic magnets and vice-versa! A magnet by itself has no sound, and as a part of a pickup, the magnet is simply the source to provide the magnetic field for the strings. The important factor is the design of a magnetic circuit which establishes what magnet to use.

Though ceramic magnets cost less than alnico magnets of equal size, a well-designed magnetic circuit using ceramic magnets costs much more than the six Alnico 5 magnets of a traditional single coil pickup!"_ END QUOTE

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: U know what I hate?

and you just take it on faith
whatever someone tells you
or you read on the Internet?

then it wasn't him I was referring to

 

[Thurisaz]

Re: U know what I hate?

So now a JB sounds like a DD or an Invader, Metal Maniac? :lol:

 

[ACH91332]

Re: U know what I hate?

Yeah awhile ago when I contested what someone said about magnets altering tone he came at me with what Bill Lawrence said and I mean I don't know. They guy made pickups, I've never used them, but everyone says they're BAMFs so I mean cool but I just don't agree with his philosophy on magnets. I do agree with the whole some ceramics sound sweet and some alnicos sound harsh because that happens. It depends on the wind though. When he said what he did it was probably in response to people saying ceramics are always harsh and alnicos are never harsh which is not true because it depends on the wind but generally speaking it is the case. The statement that magnets don't alter tone though is just wrong. The Custom line and the JB/DD pickups all prove that. If they didn't make a difference there would just be the Custom and the JB.

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: U know what I hate?

I wouldnt exactly call Bll lawrence "retarded";
QUOTE-"When I read that ceramic magnets sound harsh and alnico magnets sound sweet, I ask myself, " Who the hell preaches such nonsense?" There are harsh-sounding pickups with alnico magnets and sweet-sounding pickups with ceramic magnets and vice-versa! A magnet by itself has no sound, and as a part of a pickup, the magnet is simply the source to provide the magnetic field for the strings. The important factor is the design of a magnetic circuit which establishes what magnet to use.

Though ceramic magnets cost less than alnico magnets of equal size, a well-designed magnetic circuit using ceramic magnets costs much more than the six Alnico 5 magnets of a traditional single coil pickup!"_ END QUOTE

Well, he's both right and wrong, isn't he? (and that only depends on your perspective)

A ceramic magnet will absolutely sound harsh in a Pearly Gates, and sound punchy and tight in a Custom. Magnets don't have a sound of their own (when was the last time you played your refrigerator door?).

But obviously the structure of the pickup will produce a different tone with a Ceramic versus an Alnico 2 versus a Neodymium.

If the quote he'd read said something more in the vein of "Ceramics make pickups brighter and punchier, while weaker alnicos like 2 and 3 make for a smoother tone within a similar wiring scheme"...THAT would have been very accurate.

But he is right. A ceramic is not "harsh". It only makes pickups with bright winds harsh (and even then, who's to say that won't work in a dark, muddy guitar?)

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: U know what I hate?

I have no earthly idea what it means. I know as much about pickup design as I do about lion tameing. I do know it seemed relevant to this topic, and so I posted it. I did find it on the net..presumably Bill Larewnce did say it, Ive heard that quote associated with him before. I don't think Lawrence is saying that different magnets in the same pickup make no difference, but again, I don't know.Maybe someone can add somethign to make it make more sense.

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: U know what I hate?

I have no earthly idea what it means. I know as much about pickup design as I do about lion tameing. I do know it seemed relevant to this topic, and so I posted it. I did find it on the net..presumably Bill Larewnce did say it, Ive heard that quote associated with him before. I don't think Lawrence is saying that different magnets in the same pickup make no difference, but again, I don't know.Maybe someone can add somethign to make it make more sense.

Well, I can talk your ear off all day about magnet and pickup structure. I think there was a diagram somewhere on the site that sheds a little light on the subject too.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: U know what I hate?

Whenever a guy on the Dimarzio forum goes and says "magnets do not have an specific sound" or "don't alter tone". Do they only play Dimarzios?! Has anyone ever heard of the Duncan Custom line? Or the JB and DD?
Sorry for the rant but I just don't understand how someone can say magnets do not alter tone when they do so much. Sure the wind is the most important part of the pickup but the magnet matters too. If magnets didn't matter all pickups would use ceramics because they are cheaper nuff said.
If anyone has anything they want to say please do.

ya know
some people are just retarded
ya can't tell em that they are retarded
cuz they just get mad
they don't think they are retarded
no matter how much empirical proof you present to them
that says that they are, in fact, retarded
they won't believe it
you know why?
cuz they're retarded

I have no earthly idea what it means. I know as much about pickup design as I do about lion tameing. I do know it seemed relevant to this topic, and so I posted it. I did find it on the net..presumably Bill Larewnce did say it, Ive heard that quote associated with him before. I don't think Lawrence is saying that different magnets in the same pickup make no difference, but again, I don't know.Maybe someone can add somethign to make it make more sense.

^^^ i don't believe i've read of anyone saying that here.
if you want to discuss the kids on the DMZ forum saying it, go back over there and start a b1tch thread.
don't forget to hack on the JB (and SD in general) and spread misinformation while you're there.
i'm off to have a norton sandwich.

 

[oilpit]

Re: U know what I hate?

i'm off to have a norton sandwich.

I loled



P.S. The JB sucks and there is no pickup worthwhile besides the Norton
:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

 

[ACH91332]

Re: U know what I hate?

Haha well put.

EDIT: I like the Norton over the JB.. lol.. It's just the mid spike thing.. I use mahogany. Haha

 

[dr. ad]

Re: U know what I hate?

^ it's true that they're generally not down with magnet swapping, can't dispute that
(it wasn't all directed at you either)


i have a relative with a form of autism; (EDIT) watch the "retard" calls...


the (largely semantic) argument stating that a magnet doesn't have it's own sound is pretty dumb; as without a magnet, a coil doesn't have it's own sound either.

i think the differences may be less pronounced when swapping mags in a dual-resonance pickup or an airbucker... but it's always going to make a difference.
not all DMZ are ceramic; that's enough proof for me.

 

[ACH91332]

Re: U know what I hate?

Yeah I changed my post I took it negatively right away then the second I posted I cooled off a tad and ended up laughing at your Norton remark haha.

 

[Invader09]

Re: U know what I hate?

LMAO, ya'll said DD !!

On a side note - Magnets obviously alter tone quite a bit.... I'm a fan of ceramic bridge pickups( I like the agression you get from them) but I actually am discovering that Alnico in the neck (Alnico 2 or even 5) sounds really sweet for that silky warm lead tone, and i'm starting to perfer it for sure.

 

[B2D]

Re: U know what I hate?

I have no earthly idea what it means. I know as much about pickup design as I do about lion tameing. I do know it seemed relevant to this topic, and so I posted it. I did find it on the net..presumably Bill Larewnce did say it, Ive heard that quote associated with him before. I don't think Lawrence is saying that different magnets in the same pickup make no difference, but again, I don't know.Maybe someone can add somethign to make it make more sense.

What he is saying is that there's more to the tone of the pickup than just the magnet - a LOT more. I think he was addressing the attitude among tone snobs that pickups with ceramic magnets are inherently inferior to Alnico based designs - which is simply not true.

The tone a pickup imparts on a guitar has to do with the sum of it's parts and how it interacts with a guitar. To single out ONE element out of the entire, extremely complex model of materials, wire, wood, plastic, metal and electricity and blame IT for what is perceived as a negative attribute is not logical.

 

[ACH91332]

Re: U know what I hate?

That's why I think Bill said what he did. A lot of people do say "oh its A2 so it's gonna be muddy" or "oh its a ceramic it will be harsh" before they even hear what people have to say about it which is stupid.

EDIT:^^ I've only seen two people there rant that magnets don't have tone so dont hate on everyone haha. After all I use just as many Dimarzios as I use Duncans.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: U know what I hate?

Any good links to somewhere where we can read up on exactly how the different magnets affect the sound of a pickup?

I don't mean descriptions, like 'A2 has spongier bass,' but the actual physics behind how it works. I'm sure it can't just be down to some types having a stronger magnetic field, as otherwise you could just make a one magnet sound like another by degaussing them.

 

[joshuablevins]

Re: U know what I hate?

really they change everything!
everything and anything changes everything!
if you demagnetize thema and have a powerful magnet weaker like an alnico 5 you get the vintage sound of a weak magnet pickup and the clarity of an alnico 5. that changes the clarity then you wind a pickup and that gives it its tonal charecteristics and eq. some magnets respond one way and other magnets respond a different way that is like waying theres no difference between ceramic magnets and alnico magnets in speakers!

 

[jeremy]

Re: U know what I hate?

people say things of which they have no first hand experience as fact. it happens all the time. im sure we all do it to some extent but that doesnt make it any less irritating when you do have first hand knowledge and know them to be wrong.