um well its here ....

ZiggyZipgun said:
That's equal to six months' salary where those are made! Enjoy.
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Exactly...think of all the people that would be out of work if we didn't buy their guitars!

:nana:

P.S.- I was kidnapped in China and forced to teach English in impoverished areas for months without pay before I escaped...us buying guitars from China isn't the problem with that country and the reason for low wages....just saying!
 
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ArtieToo said:
Things must be getting better over there. I would've guessed 6 years.
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I really only know that minimum wage in Indonesia was increased this year to $1.17/hr. I believe South Korea's is slightly better than that. In either case, there are a lot of 15-year-old girls working in those factories.
 
ZiggyZipgun said:
I really only know that minimum wage in Indonesia was increased this year to $1.17/hr. I believe South Korea's is slightly better than that. In either case, there are a lot of 15-year-old girls working in those factories.
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First of all, these Epiphones are made in China.

Second, South Korea's minimum wage is something like $7.26/hr (USD equivalent of ₩9,620), which is similar to the U.S. federal minimum wage of $7.25/hr

Indonesia is a completely different story, but the cost of living there is also 75% less than in the U.S. So, while there's certainly a disparity and workers there are sorely underpaid in many cases, it's not an entirely fair comparison in relative terms...
 
Masta' C said:
So, while there's certainly a disparity and workers there are sorely underpaid in many cases, it's not an entirely fair comparison in relative terms...
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All I really want to know is...could the fine people who manufacture these guitars afford one of them?

I understand there are advantages to having a Fender facility in Mexico, beyond the reach of the Environmental Protection Agency, and it makes sense for Godin to assemble guitars in New Hampshire rather than exporting the finished product over the border. In just about every other case companies are exploiting the lowest paid populations on the planet, without offering them even half of what they would pay an American to build my Cort Jaguar and Cort Bass VI.
 
ZiggyZipgun said:
...exploiting the lowest paid populations on the planet, without offering them even half of what they would pay an American
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I think you're coming from a good place, but there are a number of issues with your views...

First, in terms of cost of living, an Indonesian employee would only need 1/4 what the American would. So, I guess a "national" minimum wage of $1.81 instead of $1.17 would be "fair"?

Also, do you have proof that laborers in these factories are making only minimum wage or is that just an assumption?

As for "affording" the product they produce, things aren't that simple. First, they have their own market with brands and models that aren't available to us in the U.S. There aren't even Epiphone dealers in Indonesia, as far as I am aware.

In the UK, the guitar linked by the OP is 1299 GBP, which is $1600 USD.

In other parts of Europe, it's 1399 Euros, which is $1500 USD.

Also, similar products tend to cost less there, so Western countries are actually paying a premium for the same quality native Indonesians get for less. Blame capitalism :)

Also, to your earlier point about factory workers being 15 year old girls...I was 15 when I legally started working for minimum wage here in the U.S. Are you suggesting that the ethics would be different if I was a "girl"?
 
And to add to my last post...this is a "premium" Epiphone. They have plenty of models available at MUCH lower prices.

For example, Epi's standard Explorer is $650 before discounts and only $300-$400 used.

Do you think everyone in a Rolex factory can afford a Rolex or that everyone purchasing a BMW can afford the most top-of-the-line model?

Do we think the average kid polishing necks at Gibson for $19/hr right here in the U.S. can afford one of their $10K Les Pauls?

Just saying...
 
I won't try to address all of your points right this moment, but I will say that as more states in the U.S. pass wage transparency laws, as 9 or 10 already have, the employees in these U.S. guitar factories will eventually see what others are getting paid at the same and competing companies. They'll negotiate for more competitive salaries, which will drive up the prices to a point where they sell less, and have to cut some of those well-paid employees. Then we'll go through another period of crappy quality as they replace them with entry-level, underpaid employees. What a time to be alive.
 
Yeah, let's not get into a geopolitical discussion about possibly overpriced Epiphones. Just discuss the Epis themselves.
 
I've got more than that in my Epi Lzzy Hale model,( especially after swapping hardware and adding blackouts.)

And it is a great guitar, worth every penny in my humble opinion.
 
I have had bad experiences with newer Epiphones. But it's mostly their fretwork.

I still have a 1959 LP that is pretty nice. It plays and sounds better than average, but I don't like it as much as my lowest-end Gibson. But it does look way prettier.

Honestly, if you're spending as much in a Gibson-esque guitar, you're better off with LTD or Schecter, IMO.
 
beaubrummels said:
Is this a political thread? Or are we bashing Epiphone? I just want to stay on topic.
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That seems pricy for an Epiphone. Granted, the "Inspired by Gibson" line seems to be a top-of-the-line guitar using solid woods and such....still seems high to me for an Epiphone.

That being said, I've been assembling electric "partscasters" for the past 10 years rather than buy any branded electric...Acoustics are different stories BUT I remember returning an Advanced Jumbo and a J45 due to Epiphone Masterbilts.
 
I have one of the natural Gibson Explorers (a gift, believe it or not!). I'd rather buy a used one of those - they'll hold their value much better than the Epiphone.
 
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