Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

Guitar Toad

Toadily Stratologist
Everyone is always wanting hot wound. Just for the sake of argument.

Would going towards a cooler/underwound SC pup produce cleaner, brighter, and even more chime?

Didn't SRV have underwound pups?
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

I think that an underwound clean pup would have a use in the middle and neck. I often think that both positions are too strong and that output should be calibrated carefully from position to position to keep an overall even volume and tone. A underwound clean single with a lot of headroom might accentuate postion 2/4 quack.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

Back in the day, (somewhere in the 60's), the winding machine was off so the pickups were really about 200 turns off from previous. That is why some eras of the pickups have a lower reading that others. The pickups SRV had in #1 were the stock pickups AFAIK, except for one which was replaced with another Blackback after it blew.

BTW, this is stuff from Cesar Diaz.

Underwound pickups will be clearer and more open and when played with distortion will remain clear and not get muddy.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

Everyone is always wanting hot wound. Just for the sake of argument.

Would going towards a cooler/underwound SC pup produce cleaner, brighter, and even more chime?

Didn't SRV have underwound pups?

Vintage Strat pickups varied -- anywhere from the upper 5k range to about 6.5k. I believe SRVs pickup were very close in DC resistance to the Surfers. The early sixties Strat pickups were in that 6.3-6.5k range. Lindy Fralin's pickups in that range are called *Vintage Hot*, so that is in the hotter range for vintage pickups. I think I read somewhere that Seymour thinks those early sixties Strat pickups sounded best. If you look and see the range that Duncan vintage strat pickups are wound, you'll find that DC resistance. So an underwound pickup would be from about 5.5-5.9k. There are other pickup winders that make a 50's style pickup that would be in that range.

Modern Strat pickups are all over the map. But I think as a general rule, your hypothesis about underwound Strat pickups is correct. Magnets and wind pattern would affect that rule of course.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

John Mayer uses low output pups in his Strats and they sound great to me. Not my tone, but still an amazing sound.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

What about underwound humbuckers. If single coils sound good at 6k, why not humbuckers?
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

IIRC vintage mini humbuckers are in the 6K range...different magnet structure, but it's close. And DiMarzio's HFH is wound to about 5K or so IIRC.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

I like an underwound single in the middle. I've got some in the 5's. With humbuckers, it's a crapshoot. Just saying you want an underwound humbucker won't necessarily yield the same result as the single coil recipe, because you've got different magnet types to consider, and in a series humbucker setup, one coil sort of "feeds" the other coil. Going too weak can start to underpower the series link so to speak. I've got a 7.4k Alnico 4 bridge humbucker in one Mahogany guitar with that underwound middle single in the middle. Overall it's a very sweet guitar with a great tonality to it. But under mid-to-heavy overdrive you can definitely tell that the notes aren't jumping out of the bridge humbucker. It doesn't saturate preamps the same way. I would deliberately have to raise the gain knob or use a booster to achieve the same levels of saturation, even vs. a 59B for example. But the tone is worth it on that particular guitar. I won't swap the bridge pickup. I like it. Maybe I'll put a clean boost on the guitar pot someday, but the other two pickups are true single coils, so then I'll be boosting the noise before I hit the amp, so my cleans might be noisier than necessary.

Anyway, don't fear the underwound bucker, but know that it's really almost a different animal than PAF or higher winds.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

I like an underwound single in the middle. I've got some in the 5's. With humbuckers, it's a crapshoot. Just saying you want an underwound humbucker won't necessarily yield the same result as the single coil recipe, because you've got different magnet types to consider, and in a series humbucker setup, one coil sort of "feeds" the other coil. Going too weak can start to underpower the series link so to speak. I've got a 7.4k Alnico 4 bridge humbucker in one Mahogany guitar with that underwound middle single in the middle. Overall it's a very sweet guitar with a great tonality to it. But under mid-to-heavy overdrive you can definitely tell that the notes aren't jumping out of the bridge humbucker. It doesn't saturate preamps the same way. I would deliberately have to raise the gain knob or use a booster to achieve the same levels of saturation, even vs. a 59B for example. But the tone is worth it on that particular guitar. I won't swap the bridge pickup. I like it. Maybe I'll put a clean boost on the guitar pot someday, but the other two pickups are true single coils, so then I'll be boosting the noise before I hit the amp, so my cleans might be noisier than necessary.

Anyway, don't fear the underwound bucker, but know that it's really almost a different animal than PAF or higher winds.

Frank - You like an underwound middle on a strat for better notch tones or do you actually use the middle alone?

What do you think about an underwound SC for the strat neck position? I've exchanged posts with Lew about this a while back and he had the opinion that the underwound would be too clean and too bright for most players.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

underwound compared to what? i think that the right 5.8k pup could sound really nice in the neck or the middle which would be underwound compared to a 6.5k ssl1. i would hate to hear it in the bridge though.

im not frank but i also like the weakest pup in the middle for both notch tones and bright clean rhythm tones on the middle pup by itself
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

For me the weak middle is for the notch tones. I don't use the middle by itself a lot. But I do have one guitar with a weak middle and neck. The bridge single in that guitar also has a weak tap out, but a strong full output. Sometimes I like the weak tap in the notch position.

To quantify underwound, my weakest middle single is 5.4k
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

Good question-

I'm saying underwound compared to other SD SC pickups. Most of the Seymour Duncan SC's are wound to >6K, it seems to me that most Fenders SC I've seen are in the high 5's. I don't really want to question SD's wisdom because they are great pickups. I'm just wondering what weaker SC's would be like. Especially for the neck slot.

For underwound, I guess I'm thinking 5.5-5.9k.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

jason lollar makes some that are in that range
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

My new middle Strat pup is in the mail (should be here today, WooHoo!) hand wound by Zhangligun and it is a 5.8 K RW/RP to go along with my 6.4 K neck and 9.5K (7.7K tapped) bridge pups (Also wound by Zhang and all A5).

I went with 5.8 for the middle to achieve more quack and cluck from the notch positions. I don't use the middle alone, my strat is wired bridge and middle together in that switch position. I will give a full rundown of how they all sound together after I put them through their paces.
 
Re: Underwound SC Strat and Tele pickups

Me too, I think I'm going to send my neck pup back to him and have it rewound a little lower. I thought I wanted everything hot at the time :)
 
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