Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

[Lazarus1140]

Requirements:

6 Mic Channels
2 (minimum) monitor sends
Onboard Effects
Quality Pre-Amps
Quality Construction
Price < $500 USD


CONTENDERS

Mackie ProFX12v2


Soundcraft Signature 12


Allen and Heath ZED12 FX


Any comments from experience with these particular products or similar products from the same manufacturers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[marcboomer]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I'm about to buy the Mackie, having just acquired powered mains and monitors. It's just that Mackie has been very good to me for many years. They have good customer service and they have never failed on me. (I'm sure part of that is luck....)

 

[jeremy]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

i love my old allen heath mix wizard, i think it sounds better than my buddies mackie although it is a solid board

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I'm about to buy the Mackie ...

The exact same model ... ProFX 12v2?

i love my old allen heath mix wizard, i think it sounds better than my buddies mackie although it is a solid board

Their WZ4 12:2 looks great but it's almost double my budget. I wonder if it uses the same preamps as the ZED series.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I'm a big fan of the Behringer X-Air stuff in that price range.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I'm a big fan of the Behringer X-Air stuff in that price range.

With Behringer acquiring Midas, their preamps are very good. Bang for buck as far as build quality and road-worthiness has to go to Mackie, though. They build like they have never heard of the word 'obsolescence'.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I've never owned or worked with a Mackie board that didn't start getting fussy way before its time. I'd roll the A&H.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

With Behringer acquiring Midas, their preamps are very good. Bang for buck as far as build quality and road-worthiness has to go to Mackie, though. They build like they have never heard of the word 'obsolescence'.

With regard to Behringer ... my first mixer was an entry level model and it was very noisy. Surely they have improved over the years, and undoubtedly the models at the $300-$400 price point will be significantly better than the one I purchased, but they'll have to prove it to someone else.


I've heard nothing but praise reports about the older models, but most of the reviews I've found online place A & H and Soundcraft above Mackie for reliability.

 

[chadd]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I've never had to do anything other than clean a pot or fader with the Mackies that I've owned over the years. You really can't go wrong with any of the Mackie, Soundcraft or Allen and Heath, it really comes down to preference at that point. That said, picking up a used Presonus today to replace my 1604vlz.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I'm a big fan of the Behringer X-Air stuff in that price range.

I just got the Behringer X-Air 18 / XR18
its awesome
sounds great
has usb that sends all 18 inputs individually to a DAW

I was going to suggest the XR16 or XR12 to get within your price range
but the Desktop version X18 is exactly the same as mine just $200 cheaper
not rack mount and the outputs are 1/4 inch instead of XLR
the XR16 and XR12 are under $400 used

if your using it at home, its easily the best bang for the buck
if your using it on the road, rack it and take care of it like anything else

all the moving parts are virtual and wont wear out
no faders or pots to fail

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Just bought a 6 input Soundcraft a few months back. Seems to be very well made, works well, and has good (and quiet) eq.
That said.....we had a Behringer rack-mount for the last 10 years that worked great until 6-7 moths ago. One side quit working so i used it jumped until the new mixer came.
I would not (as others have mentioned) shy away from Behringer these days either.
good luck

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Some of the mixers have 2 tracks in/2 out for recording and playback. Others have multiple tracks. I can see the benefit of the multiple "outs" for recording a live performance and then having the ability to go back and edit individual tracks.

What I don't understand is the tech things relating to the USB versions and bit and sampling rates, etc. For example:

A & H ZED 12FX
USB Audio In/Out (2 in/2 out) - USB 1.1 compliant 16bit
Sample Rate - 32, 44.1, or 48kHz

Soundcraft Signature 12
USB Audio In/Out (2 in/2 out) - USB (version not identified)
Bit Depth - 16-bit, 24-bit
Sampling Rate - 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz

Soundcraft Signature 12MTK
USB Audio In/Out (14 in/12 out) - USB (version not identified)
Bit Depth - 16-bit, 24-bit
Sampling Rate - 44.1kHz, 48kHz

Mackie ProFX12 V2
USB Audio In/Out (2 in/2 out) - USB 1.1
Bit Depth - 16-bit
Sampling Rate - 44.1kHz, 48kHz


Aren't USB's up to version 3 or 3.1? Does that mean these mixers won't record well? Maybe I should be in tips and clips (or on Google) trying to understand the nature of and end result of bit rates and sampling rates. I'm not sure any of this makes a huge difference to me, but it should carry at least a little weight in my decision making process.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Every time I look at this thread title, I swear it says "Underpowered Mixer Recommendations".

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Every time I look at this thread title, I swear it says "Underpowered Mixer Recommendations".

It might as well say that.

I am doomed by my obsessive study of specifications and online reviews. Most of the data is over my head anyway. My plan is to go to Guitar Center today to test examples of several manufacturer's models. I will twist the pots and slide the faders in an attempt to "feel" which units are the least toyish. Then I'll probably flip a coin to decide between the top two. My fear is that I won't use it enough or use enough of its features to wring out any weaknesses within the warranty period.

Then ... it pains me to say it ... I'll need to sell some pedals. I would rather have a mixer I almost don't need instead of the twenty or so pedals I love and never use. Or I could look for a very tolerant lady with money and poor taste. Nah, I'll just eat Ramen noodles and beans.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Beans are expensive. Better make it Ramen and Ramen.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I visited two GCs and was so disappointed in the selections and disorganized displays that I was compelled to write mildly critical emails complete with unsolicited, probably unwelcome suggestions for giving the appearance that product sales is one of their goals.

Then I decided to scale back to a smaller, less expensive unit that is adequate for my current "need". It was between the A & H ZED-10FX and the Soundcraft Signature 10. The Soundcraft won the <$300 battle because it has faders instead of pots for channel volume adjustments, it has one additional Aux send, and it has TRS aux outs as opposed to the RCA connectors on the A & H. It appears that its USB connectivity is a bit better as well. I will open it carefully, preserve all the packaging, and test it thoroughly. If I am dissatisfied, I will order the ZED and return the Soundcraft in a condition looking at least as good as anything on GC's shelves.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I visited two GCs and was so disappointed in the selections and disorganized displays that I was compelled to write mildly critical emails complete with unsolicited, probably unwelcome suggestions for giving the appearance that product sales is one of their goals.

Then I decided to scale back to a smaller, less expensive unit that is adequate for my current "need". It was between the A & H ZED-10FX and the Soundcraft Signature 10. The Soundcraft won the <$300 battle because it has faders instead of pots for channel volume adjustments, it has one additional Aux send, and it has TRS aux outs as opposed to the RCA connectors on the A & H. It appears that its USB connectivity is a bit better as well. I will open it carefully, preserve all the packaging, and test it thoroughly. If I am dissatisfied, I will order the ZED and return the Soundcraft in a condition looking at least as good as anything on GC's shelves.

I prefer pots to short-scale faders; short-scale faders have an incredibly limited sweet spot.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

I prefer pots to short-scale faders; short-scale faders have an incredibly limited sweet spot.

Well ... that's good to know, sir! Still, RCA outs on the A&H ....

Is it that the sweet spot gets worn out faster on the 60mm faders?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

Well ... that's good to know, sir! Still, RCA outs on the A&H ....

Is it that the sweet spot gets worn out faster on the 60mm faders?

No, just harder to find it; faders are logarithmic, and boards sound their best when the faders are between -6dB to about +4dB; on a 100mm fader, it's the longest part of the travel, so you can dial in the precise level. On a short-scale fader, that range is literally half the travel, thus twice(ish) as hard to find.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Unpowered Mixer Recomendations

No, just harder to find it; faders are logarithmic, and boards sound their best when the faders are between -6dB to about +4dB; on a 100mm fader, it's the longest part of the travel, so you can dial in the precise level. On a short-scale fader, that range is literally half the travel, thus twice(ish) as hard to find.

I appreciate your knowledge and input. I already ordered the Soundcraft because I had to treat the G.A.S. and can more easily afford a bad decision than the continued distractions from work caused by me trying to make a decision. When I actually need something more sophisticated and with more inputs for a full band situation I will definitely go the 100mm fader route ... and most likely with an Allen & Heath unit. At my age, I can't see myself ever going digital.

The Signature 10 will give me a way to test my power amp and passive PA speaker combo and will allow me to hear what my acoustic guitar and the FX8 sound like through a PA. It's all a bunch of open mic BS. I have learned to live with the performance mistakes I make but I can't tolerate sounding bad too!