Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

wanmei1

wanmei1

New member
Until we forum members decide to get serious and do ourselves and all of mankind a great service by establishing a sound clip data base of pups and all their modifications then I'm afraid we may be just going round and round in circles.
How long before the next post asking : I'm confused by all the conflicting advice when I asked the question "What pup do you recommend for my Fenson / Gibsder "?
"I play super ultra heavy Death/Thrash/Metal so is a Seth Lover a good choice for my Ibaless Destroyer Phase 111 "? etc,etc.
So why don't we nominate certain members who have a lot of experience with different pups to demonstrate different pups ? - and maybe give us a talk about the strengths and weaknesses. I think most of us would be interested to hear what happens with a magnet switch to A2 and A3 and A4 and A5 etc.
If a member says I haven't got a good microphone to plug into my recorder / computer then how about if we ask if there are members willing to send a donation of maybe 5 or 10 bucks to who ever.
Anyway isn't it about time that maybe "youtube" or wherever gets hit hard with an organised SD Pickup Forum data base?
I personally would like to extend an invitation to any members with a good collection of SD pups to consider taking up the challenge, particularly Blueman335, Lew and Zhang.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

A comprehensive database is an excellent idea. With the freely available resources on the forum it's a wonder why SDGUF has not produced one. On the other hand there have to be standards and stuff relatable to everybody. It's not an easy task. Are you suggesting establishing a task force of forum members to create this database?

To play the devils advocate, no certain people are the authority on pickups. Everyone has some valuable input. Are you willing to put some time in to organize this information?
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I think there are too many variables to create an all-inclusive database, so we'll never have the ability to point to a set of soundclips to answer every question. Just think, you'd have to account for each pickup in guitars made of various body/neck/fingerboard woods, scale lengths, construction types, etc... and then throw in clips for clean/low gain/high gain. So, while I think it's a great idea, I don't think people will ever stop asking questions, but that's not a bad thing!
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

SixStringSales said:
A comprehensive database is an excellent idea. With the freely available resources on the forum it's a wonder why SDGUF has not produced one. On the other hand there have to be standards and stuff relatable to everybody. It's not an easy task. Are you suggesting establishing a task force of forum members to create this database?

To play the devils advocate, no certain people are the authority on pickups. Everyone has some valuable input. Are you willing to put some time in to organize this information?
Click to expand...

Sure I'm willing to put time in.
I think we need to toss around a few ideas between members as to how we should organise it and I think a task force is a great idea.
I believe your right when you say that no one is the absolute authority on pups so the idea would be to have as many diferent members contibuting as possible with a description as to equipment used, wether the action is low, medium or high, the rough height of the pup etc, string gauge etc. ( these things need to be decided by comittee . )
Then we can all hear what we think about the sound of an SD 59 ( or whatever ) with an A5 compared to the sound of a 59 with an A2/A3/A4. and so on.
By no means will the data base ever be perfect however with the amount of ownership of desirable pups, the expertise, knowledge and experience of members floating around on this Forum it seems crazy not to capitalise on it all with an SD Forum data base.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

FretFire said:
I think there are too many variables to create an all-inclusive database, so we'll never have the ability to point to a set of soundclips to answer every question. Just think, you'd have to account for each pickup in guitars made of various body/neck/fingerboard woods, scale lengths, construction types, etc... and then throw in clips for clean/low gain/high gain. So, while I think it's a great idea, I don't think people will ever stop asking questions, but that's not a bad thing!
Click to expand...

+1 to that. even taking one pickup, lets say a2pro

as mentioned, you have guitar types (strat, LP, 335 etc), woods, neck woods, bridge type, cap value, string guage, playing style/technique...and that hasnt even touched the most basic of amp questions, like fenderesque vs marshall

it would be almost impossible
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

FretFire said:
I think there are too many variables to create an all-inclusive database, so we'll never have the ability to point to a set of soundclips to answer every question. Just think, you'd have to account for each pickup in guitars made of various body/neck/fingerboard woods, scale lengths, construction types, etc... and then throw in clips for clean/low gain/high gain. So, while I think it's a great idea, I don't think people will ever stop asking questions, but that's not a bad thing!
Click to expand...
I think before this can happen a comitte must be established to set up a few guide lines so as to allow for the inevitable variables in equipment.
However if the clip was accompanied by a description of the guitar usedincluding the pup height, string gauge, pole piece adjustments, amplifier and settings of tone controls etc. then at least we can allow for these while listening and drawing on our own experience, compensate for these variables until we get contribution from members that are closer to our own set up.
I think the key is to toss around a few ideas within a task force and see what guide lines can be developed.
I also think there would be quite a few members that would love to hear some of the sound / tone research work on magnets and demagnetising done by Zhang and many others.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

scottish said:
+1 to that. even taking one pickup, lets say a2pro

as mentioned, you have guitar types (strat, LP, 335 etc), woods, neck woods, bridge type, cap value, string guage, playing style/technique...and that hasnt even touched the most basic of amp questions, like fenderesque vs marshall

it would be almost impossible
Click to expand...
Your right ! - ALMOST impossible - but it can be done.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I would like to see some more of a database or simply some YouTubes of people in action

The problem with soundclips is 80% - 90% are made by at home players (sorry, no offense), poorly played, often alone in a room, more interested in getting seen or heard.

I genuinely prefer coming on a forum like this one and getting the discussion and takes from people who have used them. A lot of times if you are specific, some good players who are akin to your personal tastes and styles, with EXPERIENCE studio and live will chime in with their thoughts.

This is MORE valuable to hear things like "I used it in _____ kind of band and it was not cutting thru with ______ rig."

On more than one ocassion I have gotten posts from people whose links I clicked and they could barely play. 100% of the time these are the people who say "__ pickup SUCKS, blah blah blah"

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MORE PEOPLE POSTING THEIR PERSONAL LINKS WITH MUSIC AND YOUTUBES (IE MYSPACE ETC) SO WE CAN BETTER JUDGE THE SOURCE OF THE ADVICE.

EDIT: I am NOT naming any names and this is aimed at NO person in particular.
 
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Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

The trick is to create a baseline. Basically a reference point to compare against. Then you just use the same environment to record all of the pickups. We really don't need to cover every permutation of guitars, amps, mics, etc. We just just need a reference of similarly recorded clips.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

OlinMusic said:
I would like to see some more of a database or simply some YouTubes of people in action

The problem with soundclips is 80% - 90% are made by at home players (sorry, no offense), poorly played, often alone in a room, more interested in getting seen or heard.

I genuinely prefer coming on a forum like this one and getting the discussion and takes from people who have used them. A lot of times if you are specific, some good players who are akin to your personal tastes and styles, with EXPERIENCE studio and live will chime in with their thoughts.

This is MORE valuable to hear things like "I used it in _____ kind of band and it was not cutting thru with ______ rig."

On more than one ocassion I have gotten posts from people whose links I clicked and they could barely play. 100% of the time these are the people who say "__ pickup SUCKS, blah blah blah"

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MORE PEOPLE POSTING THEIR PERSONAL LINKS WITH MUSIC AND YOUTUBES (IE MYSPACE ETC) SO WE CAN BETTER JUDGE THE SOURCE OF THE ADVICE.

EDIT: I am NOT naming any names and this is aimed at NO person in particular.
Click to expand...

Yes please and go straight into the amp! Don't use wah pedals! :onder: You know who you are.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

FretFire said:
I think there are too many variables to create an all-inclusive database, so we'll never have the ability to point to a set of soundclips to answer every question. Just think, you'd have to account for each pickup in guitars made of various body/neck/fingerboard woods, scale lengths, construction types, etc... and then throw in clips for clean/low gain/high gain. So, while I think it's a great idea, I don't think people will ever stop asking questions, but that's not a bad thing!
Click to expand...

That's why it hasn't happened. It would be nice if it worked like a mathematical formula; change your PU to this & it'll sound like that. But the huge number of variables make that hopelessly misleading. Wood itself is a such a challenge. The denisty, grain, mineral content, compression, etc all vary depending on the climate, soil, elevation, nutrition, etc. Even wood from the same tree will have different tonal qualities, as no two pieces are or can be the same. So a certain species of tree doesn't guarantee a sound; its only a guideline. You've got the wood on the body, neck, and fretboard. It is one -piece or laminated? How many laminations? Hollow, semi-hollow, or solid body? Bolt-on, set, or neck thru? Vibrato, stop bar, or tailpiece? What brand of vibrato? Free floating? String gauge? Tuners? What value pots & caps?

And then there's the amp and speaker, each of which have many variables. Tube or solid state? 6L6 or EL34's? How many preamp tubes? How old are the tubes? Recitfier? Speaker size, model, and impedence? How is the amp EQ'd? What volume is the amp? Amp EQ's change with volume. Room acoustics? What about effects, even if used sparingly? The cable type & length also changes the EQ. And so much of a guitar's sound is the player & his style.

There are so many variables, you may want to run away screaming. That's why all of this is up to each player, to shape his sound with his choice of variables. And that's why most of the PU recomendations on this forum are contradictory & worthless. They only apply to the variables one person happens to have, which are highly unlikely to be the same as the next guy's.

If you want predicability, electric guitars ain't it. It's the wild west, and most of it's opinion, not fact.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

blueman335 said:
And so much of a guitar's sound is the player & his style.
That's why all of this is up to each player, to shape his sound with his choice of variables. And that's why most of the PU recomendations on this forum are contradictory & worthless.
Click to expand...

Amen. All you can do is try pickups in your guitars. My best tones have come from what I thought was best for my guitars, not from suggestions - most of the suggestions that I've followed have wasted my time and money, and sounded bad in the process (to my ears).

It is a necessary learning process that helps you get to know your own guitars. For example, from what I've learned by swapping and tweaking pickups, I've set up my PRS SE Soapbar with its stock Korean-made pickups to sound as good, if not better than, my other two guitars with aftermarket pickups.

I've said this a bunch, but an EQ pedal will work wonders with crafting your tone to your liking. It cuts the mud, boosts the frequencies you like, adjusts the output level to exactly what you want, and generally adds life to your tone and playing. Every guitarist that is serious about their tone should have one before they start shelling out cash for multiple pickups.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I think this would be a good format for a seymourduncan.com hosted page: example values obviously

Link to clip or embedded player that plays clip

Pickup 1: SH-4
Pickup 2: SH-55
Position: Pickup 1 in Bridge, Pickup 2 in neck, both pickups selected
Pots: 500K
Caps: Unknown
Volume Position: 70%
Tone Position: 50%
Amplifier Make: VOX
Amplifier Model: AD15VT
Amplifier settings: Boutique Overdrive model, gain on 1, volume on 8, bass on 8, mid on 6, treble on 10
Effects: none
Guitar Make: Epiphone
Guitar Model: Dot Studio
Guitar wood: unknown
Guitar neck: maple
Guitar fretboard: rosewood





Just have a million fields to fill in, and most of us geeks will know what to put in them, and for folks with less tech knowhow, a simple "unknown" will do
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I don't believe there is any need to set a strict standard on what equipment is being used and how it is recorded, so long as it is documented.

We should just start a site which contains multiple clips from the users of the forum, and document each piece of equipment used.

For instance, if I wanted to make a reference clip of my rig, I would simply list all equipment used, which in this case would be an SM57, Laney Lionheart L20H through an Open back cab w/ G12t-75s, Warmoth guitar with black Korina Body, Ebony Fretboard and Rosewood Neck, using an SD SH12, with 500k pots.

This way, someone can simply search for a rig that is close to what they have or want, and can hear exactly what that will produce.

If we confine ourselves to only one Les Paul, one Strat, and One tele with a certain amp for ALL the sound clips, it will diminish the usefullness of the database, despite the "accuracy" of comparison.

If certain users want to produce a multitude of sound clips of different pickups using their rigs, that is fine as well, but I propose we simply start a website to showcase clips made by anyone using a clean (no effects) signal chain.

This way, a person can also listen to the same pickup across multiple amp and guitar types, and get a better feel for the pickup overall.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I think if we set some very general guidlines and catagorized by music style, then broke down the guitar/pup/amp combo a little, it would give somewhat of an idea of the overall flavor and tendancies of a combo. GENERALLY speaking. If nothing else, it would give people something different to listen to. The sound clips on the Duncan site are ok, but this should be broader. Much broader. So if a guy wanted to know what a JB in a basswood superstrat sounded like through a marshall, and he plays 80's metal, he may very well find a clip. I am willing to make some clips, hell even clips with EMG's or Dimarzios. I'm in. It could be cool, I think.
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

blueman335 said:
That's why it hasn't happened. It would be nice if it worked like a mathematical formula; change your PU to this & it'll sound like that. But the huge number of variables make that hopelessly misleading. Wood itself is a such a challenge. The denisty, grain, mineral content, compression, etc all vary depending on the climate, soil, elevation, nutrition, etc. Even wood from the same tree will have different tonal qualities, as no two pieces are or can be the same. So a certain species of tree doesn't guarantee a sound; its only a guideline. You've got the wood on the body, neck, and fretboard. It is one -piece or laminated? How many laminations? Hollow, semi-hollow, or solid body? Bolt-on, set, or neck thru? Vibrato, stop bar, or tailpiece? What brand of vibrato? Free floating? String gauge? Tuners? What value pots & caps?

And then there's the amp and speaker, each of which have many variables. Tube or solid state? 6L6 or EL34's? How many preamp tubes? How old are the tubes? Recitfier? Speaker size, model, and impedence? How is the amp EQ'd? What volume is the amp? Amp EQ's change with volume. Room acoustics? What about effects, even if used sparingly? The cable type & length also changes the EQ. And so much of a guitar's sound is the player & his style.

There are so many variables, you may want to run away screaming. That's why all of this is up to each player, to shape his sound with his choice of variables. And that's why most of the PU recomendations on this forum are contradictory & worthless. They only apply to the variables one person happens to have, which are highly unlikely to be the same as the next guy's.

If you want predicability, electric guitars ain't it. It's the wild west, and most of it's opinion, not fact.
Click to expand...

With all due respect for your expertise, knowledge and dedication to experimentation ( which I know is considerable ) I think if we take your thoughts on this matter a little further then we must reach the conclusion that there is not only no point in listening to different pups but also that there is no point in discussing them. Quote ......" If you want predictability , electric guitars ain't it. Its the wild west, and most of it is opinion, not fact"
I think many members here in spite of the variables may be interested in hearing how an SD blah blah neck played clean and distorted with no effects sounds in maybe a Les Paul or Strat through a tube amp.
I think the key is to have a list of the equipment used and modifications if any to the guitar and amp as well as a full description of the guitar and amp. If I have a stock Les Paul with a newly installed SD Orgasmo pup and a stock Fender twin and another member has posted a clip ( with description ) using the same guitar and amp then surely I must have a reasonable idea in conjunction with the some postings here as to what I can expect if I were to put in an SD orgasmo pup.
The data base would simply allow you and me to find a clip from a member using similar equipment so that we can have a litle bit better idea as to what to expect. I personally think both a sound clip data base in conjunction with discussion is a reasonable and logical extension of what we currently have. By no means can a data base be perfect but I think it might go some way to filling the gap of writing words to try and describe the sounds produced by different pup.:usa1:
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

alex1fly said:
Amen. All you can do is try pickups in your guitars. My best tones have come from what I thought was best for my guitars, not from suggestions - most of the suggestions that I've followed have wasted my time and money, and sounded bad in the process (to my ears).

It is a necessary learning process that helps you get to know your own guitars. For example, from what I've learned by swapping and tweaking pickups, I've set up my PRS SE Soapbar with its stock Korean-made pickups to sound as good, if not better than, my other two guitars with aftermarket pickups.

I've said this a bunch, but an EQ pedal will work wonders with crafting your tone to your liking. It cuts the mud, boosts the frequencies you like, adjusts the output level to exactly what you want, and generally adds life to your tone and playing. Every guitarist that is serious about their tone should have one before they start shelling out cash for multiple pickups.
Click to expand...
I for one would be most interested in hearing a sound clip from you as to how effectively an eq pedal can clean up a muddy pickup. A before and after style demonstration would be really great. I don't doubt what you are saying is correct it's just that before I go out and by an equaliser I'd love to know how effective it can be and I'd then like to ask you a few quuestions about residual noise level inherent in the unit etc.:burnout:
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

The only way I can see it working is if we had a search function with some of the fields discussed earlier - kind of like a tone wizard, but for the user group database. Otherwise, there would simply be too much information to drudge through. If there was a search function, however, it could go like:

Pickup:
Position:
Magnet:
Guitar Style: (es 335, strat, tele les paul, etc, just to summarize the construction methods)
Trem/Hardtail:
Body Wood:
Neck Wood:
Fretboard Wood:
Amp: (fender, marshall, mesa, etc for all the major amp types, the more general here, the better, because everybody will have a variant of one of the major types)

And that should do it. In each clip, some additional notes should be posted, i.e. Mic type, when it's distorted, when it's clean, whether or not the pickup is degaussed, etc. Also, there could be a "style" category, but I think it keeping it simple would be key. Actually, that would be the most intensely difficult aspect of creating an all-encompassing pickup database. I don't think it'll be easily doable, and may require intense time commitments. I would suggest that you don't get too hopeful...
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I''ll take the "talk" of a known and trusted member who shares similar ideas as mine about what good tone is and has the same benchmarks over some random persons poorly recorded sound clip.

Always so much talk about wanting to hear clips. I find clips pretty meaningless because unless its in my guitar and with my rig, its not what its going to sound like.



Just as everyone doesn't play the same, we aren't going to sound the same either even if using the same mic, amp, pups etc
 
Re: Until we have a Soundclip Data base of pickups its all just a lot of talk.

I would like to hear sounds as well as have sounds described to me. What you are saying about clips is no different than what goes on here in forum format. I don't think anyone mentioned doing away with the forum in favor of clips. If you don't want to hear clips (many recordings are very good, by the way) than don't listen to them. :dunno: Thats your perogative. Why not do both.
 
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