Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

[Lu_B]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Sounds like the consensus is to try it before you buy it. I guess that's generally true of electrics as well, but I am more wary of acoustics in this regard.

+1

I have a stunning '98 Yairi Giltrap Signature that is brilliant and I just love. Bought another Yairi a couple of months ago, same period, different wood combination, though its going to be just as good.

It wasn't the same, it didn't have the sparkle my Giltrap has. Don't get me wrong it was a good guitar but not great!

Now I'll never buy an acoustic unless I can play it, they're all a little different.

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Martin made "imports" ?!?! never happened! Aside from the Sigma line, every guitar bearing the name "Martin" is made in Nazereth PA.

As for Taylors being Bassy...sorry but that's not the case either. Try sitting in at a Bluegrass session with a Taylor and no electronics. You'll have as much chance of being heard over the banjo and HD-28's as a sparrow fart.

Martin has made imports. They come from Mexico. They're the 1 line I've been speaking about here so much. As for Taylors, keep running your mouth. Fine, whatever.

Blue Dave had a lot of good points that I forgot to mention. Another good place to check out is the Acoustic Guitar Forum and 13thfret.

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Ovation

I want to like them, the whole reinvisioning the guitar thing, but I just don't like the plastic back and freckle soundholes.

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Martin offers quite a bit in this price point, and properly setup will do everything you ask of it and more. Taylor, not so much (new anyway) but I feel they are more of the "electric guitars of acoustics".


I suggest you check out the Yamaha FG series (they make some awesome solid topped guitars, in a price point that most are unable to meet), the Martin 1 series (DX1, DR1, DM1), Taylor 100/200 series, and my personal favorite as far as a good price point goes...ALVAREZ YAIRI.

Why do you call Taylor's the "electric guitars of acoustics"?

What can you tell me about the HPL on the Martin series? Is it like the Ovation backs or is it a wood composite material?

Thanks for the great info!

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Wood types:

Rosewood back & sides will tend to be darker sounding then Mahogany will. Mahogany will sound more balanced in a larger guitar and have a little more brightness to it. Maple will be brighter even then the others.

Body size:

Dreadnoughts are usually more desirable for playing hard because they can handle hitting them hard really well, yet they don't handle fingerpicking quite as well as a smaller body does.

000 or OM size guitars are generally considered to be a great al around body size. They usually come with a 1 3/4" nut so fingerpicking as well as strumming can be accomplished well on this size guitar. This size also will handle the boominess of Rosewood more so then a larger guitar will. There are some basic differences between a 000 and OM, but basically its scale length. A 000 has a shorter scale and this will make the string tension a little lighter, again this can be easier to play finger style.

Buying used is not a big issue, just treat it like you would any other instrument. Make sure the guitar feels good in your hands, that the action is not excessively high (a sign that the neck may need to be reset) and it has the right sound your are after.

Solid spruce top, mahogony body and sides. I had been thinking dreadnaught because that seems to be the typical size, but I am now intrigued by the 000 and OM. Like I said above, I have no interest in fingerpicking at this point; I want something that will be easy for an electric guy (me) to play right off the bat.

 

[nuntius]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Sounds like the consensus is to try it before you buy it. I guess that's generally true of electrics as well, but I am more wary of acoustics in this regard.

The fact of the matter is if you're not happy with the sound of an electric guitar you can stick in some new pickups.

With acoustic guitars you're pretty much limited to new strings, saddle and nut, and bridge pins if you believe they make a difference.

Basically, you have to be happy with what you have with an acoustic as regards tone and feel, whereas with an electric if you like the feel you have a pretty large scope for altering the tone.

I have no interest in fingerpicking at this point; I want something that will be easy for an electric guy (me) to play right off the bat.

If you aren't interested in fingerpicking also check out Jumbos. While they do great for fingerpicking (youtube andy mckee) they have a wicked full sound for strumming that to me was more pleasing than any dreadnaughts I could find. Again this is personal preference.

You could also check out shorter scale acoustics (gibson scale instead of fender or longer) which are easier to play. Most manufacturers list their scale lengths. 24.75 is Gibson, 25.5 is Fender for reference. Longer scales tend to sound a bit tighter but are harder to play when compared with the same gauge strings on a shorter scale.

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Why do you call Taylor's the "electric guitars of acoustics"?

What can you tell me about the HPL on the Martin series? Is it like the Ovation backs or is it a wood composite material?

Thanks for the great info!

They have the most "electric" like necks to me. Match it up with their fretwire hight, the fact that you can drop the action down to a playable height that's still lower than most other acoustics aren't able to get to.

That, and the majority of their stuff is from the "ce" line, which stands for cutaway electric.

HPL is different than the Ovation backs. HPL stands for High Pressure Laminate. It's countertop. Ovation is a "carbon plastic composite" or some other BS. Either way, the HPL doesn't bother me that much. I'd own a Martin with HPL in a heartbeat.

As for Taylors having no mids, it's really not true. Taylor's mids are just as prominent as Martin or Breedlove, but the higher mids are much louder than a few other brands.

IMHO, Godin will give you the best for your cash. Simon and Patrick, Norman, and Seagull are all amazing acoustic guitars. Seagull is the most known out of the three. Solid tops, amazing playability. I suggest you check out a slim model first, so you're not attacked by the wide Seagull neck. Something you don't have to worry about with S&P and Norman.

They're extremely well priced, most are priced under 400 (in all three brands). They're easy to get a hold of at plenty of dealers, and they're known for dealing with the small guys (like they are). The new Godin Quantum II electronics are some of the best to come out that isn't aftermarket. Not to mention the built in tuner (which tested with my Pitch Black, is very accurate).

As mentioned before, there's always Martin's Sigma line. The best ones to get a hold of would be the Sigma line from Japan (sideways M on the headstock). But, the secrets out of about 'em, and they're fetching "vintage" prices these days.

If you can find them, which most can't, Favella guitars are amazing Martin OM copies that came from Japan in the 70's. All solid woods, and that great Japanese craftsmanship. If you can find them, they're only a few hundred, but it seems that you have a better chance of figuring out quantum physics with a pre-k education than tracking one of these guys down.

As mentioned before, the Guild GAD series is great as well, but I can't say too much about them. I've done my research, and I've asked around, but haven't had the chance to play them (no dealers in my area that I'm willing to drive to). But, as far as on paper goes, they're great.

But of course, being the stubborn asshole I am, I'm still going to push the Marlboro Martin copies because I want someone else besides me to be in love with them as well. Or hell, if you wind up find them and not liking it, fine. I'll buy it off of you.

I could stay here and continue to write a book about great makers under 400-500 dollars and what they have to offer and everything, but I think the forum server would blow up.

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

IMHO, Godin will give you the best for your cash. Simon and Patrick, Norman, and Seagull are all amazing acoustic guitars. Seagull is the most known out of the three. Solid tops, amazing playability. I suggest you check out a slim model first, so you're not attacked by the wide Seagull neck. Something you don't have to worry about with S&P and Norman.

As mentioned before, the Guild GAD series is great as well, but I can't say too much about them. I've done my research, and I've asked around, but haven't had the chance to play them (no dealers in my area that I'm willing to drive to). But, as far as on paper goes, they're great.

But of course, being the stubborn asshole I am, I'm still going to push the Marlboro Martin copies because I want someone else besides me to be in love with them as well. Or hell, if you wind up find them and not liking it, fine. I'll buy it off of you.

When the word "Godin" came up, I thought "Don't those have wide finger-picking necks?" But you say their non-Seagull brands and slim line are not so wide, so I might check those out.

A couple of Guild GAD recommendations, so I may check those as well. Is that their lower priced range? Still quality?

I don't know about the Marlboro thing. Got any pictures and/or specs? I'm all for so-called off-brands though (I have a Parker and a Schecter electric). I do like to be different.

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

When the word "Godin" came up, I thought "Don't those have wide finger-picking necks?" But you say their non-Seagull brands and slim line are not so wide, so I might check those out.

A couple of Guild GAD recommendations, so I may check those as well. Is that their lower priced range? Still quality?

I don't know about the Marlboro thing. Got any pictures and/or specs? I'm all for so-called off-brands though (I have a Parker and a Schecter electric). I do like to be different.

Guild's GAD line is their "Squier" of sorts, made in China. They're great on paper (have no opinion on them live, haven't had the pleasure). The Seagull Slim's have the normal width neck, as do S&P and Norman. And they still have that great Godin quality. Ya know what I mean?

As for the Marlboro Martin copies, there's no distinguishing brand on them anywhere. That's clue number one. It'll look like a Martin, but there'll be nothing anywhere. The two things that make them stand out from the rest is the end of the fingerboard doesn't stop at the edge of the soundhole, but rather follows it's radius. The second, is the bridge has more of a "belly" compared to a normal Martin bridge. Solid spurce top, double bound body, Rosewood back and sides, Mahogany neck, RW fretboard and bridge. Bound fretboard (which Martin doesn't offer on the D-28), and Martin "paddle" headstock. It will look like a D-28 at first or second glance, but you'll figure it out.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/msg/1189193275.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/msg/1186336362.html
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/brand/Marlboro

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I also forgot to add that MF carries two lines that are supposed to be awesome for the price...Silver Creek, and Mumbo Jumbo. I've never had a chance with either, but have good friends that I trust when it comes to quality acoustics that own them. Something has to give there, ya know?

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I played a Takamine once that I thought was pretty special for the price. Any opinions on those?

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I played a Takamine once that I thought was pretty special for the price. Any opinions on those?

I tend to stray away from them, since they're kinda Kaman's pride and joy and are all about making money and not great guitars. It's been my experience that you can't find a Takamine to match the quality of a lesser known brand at a price comparison. They don't offer a decent solid top acoustic for under 400, but their cool tube preamp is neat, but I don't think it offers a natural plugged in tone.

What it boils down to is go play 'em. I'm about to head out to GC and get some guits a good strum. Maybe I'll stumble upon some of the GAD's, and I'll give my opinion on them. Another good company is Parkwood (a MF/GC company, but they're good guitars).

 

[VACharvel]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I'm not a huge acoustic player, I just like to occasionally play for myself on the deck drinking a beer or whatever...it's become my full-time therapy playing guitar again.

I picked up the Guild GAD F30 acoustic, brand new w/the tweed archtop hardshell for $750 out the door from a store that lost the Guild line about a year ago...admittedly it was horribly set up from the factory, but $50 later from my tech it plays amazingly well (little less than 1/8" on the bass and about 1/16" treble strings) and sounds great to me (again, I'm not a acoustic connesieur).

Here's the writeup from Guild:

Guild GAD-JF30 Acoustic Design Series Jumbo Guitar Flame

The GAD-JF30 was designed with the jumbo maple body that has been in the Guild line since 1954. Guitar features include a solid flame maple back and sides, solid spruce top with scalloped bracing and a one-piece mahogany neck with traditional dovetail neck joint. Other features include ebony fingerboard and bridge, ebony pearl dot-inlay bridge pins and strap buttons, classic pearl fingerboard inlays, wood bindings, bone nut and bone compensated saddle, Grover Rotomatic tuners and a wooden arched guitar case.

It's a import, but the quality of the materials and workmanship, Grover tuners, ebony board and bone saddle and nut really impressed me at that price point. For what I want to do with an acoustic it more than adequately does the job it's designed for whether I'm fingerpicking or strumming at a decent volume and fairly well-balanced volume.

Is it comparable to a $2K+ Martin, Taylor, or other high-end acoustic, no it's not and it was never intended to be competition for them...but again, for my purposes it's perfect and with a pickup, I would gig with it in a heartbeat.

 

[Stevo 42]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

The Guild GAD's sound wonderful. If I can find a used one, I'll consider it as new they are a bit more than I wanted to go.

 

[VACharvel]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Like I said, I was wonderfully surprised at how well it set up finally and sounded....and I prefer ebony on acoustics usually, the Grover's and bone nut/saddle and HSC were all "extras" that I really liked.

Like I said, I'm not nor ever will be a acoustic master, I just like playing songs I grew up on and enjoyed for myself...I'm an electric player and I have that very well covered with guitars, modelers, and Rivera M100 for an amp...

Used they aren't that bad on E-Bay that I have seen, haven't checked Craigslist as I have one lol...but I did OK for $750 new w/OHSC still under warranty.

 

[Eamonn]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Martin has made imports. They come from Mexico. They're the 1 line I've been speaking about here so much. As for Taylors, keep running your mouth. Fine, whatever.

Blue Dave had a lot of good points that I forgot to mention. Another good place to check out is the Acoustic Guitar Forum and 13thfret.

I didn't realize they were reviving the 1 Series..so on that point I stand corrected. As far as the differences between the two, I've owned a 310 and a 410 and thought that both were good guitars but lacked a lot of the lower mids that my Martins have in spades.

Speaking of the "1 series" here are some recordings I made with a 18 year old D-1: myspace.com/eamonnleslie

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I just got back from GC (God help me) and now can voice my opinion on two things that I wasn't able to.

The Guild GAD series. They had two used ones in stock. I didn't catch model numbers, but one was a Dread and the other was a Jumbo. I was pleasantly surprised with them. I'd expected a good sounding guitar, but man...I dunno what to say. Used, they were in the 500 range and worth every bit. Playability was eh, but that's due more to a poor setup than the guitar itself. I took a good look at them both, and you could tell with a good setup, they'd be everyday players. The quality of the sound was awesome. I honestly wasn't expecting what I heard.

Parkwood, on the other hand disappointed. They had several models, from 500 to 900 and none were worth the price point, IMO. The sound, even with all solid woods was still quite tinny, lacked oomph and definition, and the quality just wasn't there. They were well made instruments, from a construction standpoint, but the sound wasn't there. All had electronics, and I suspect that they're meant to be plugged in and sound great. Seems a lot of folks are leaning in that direction. Acoustically, they're meh, but plugged in is where they shine.

They also had several Epiphone models that surprised me. I'd written off anything Epi except for the Masterbuilt series years ago. I don't remember my exact reasoning, but I think I'd just had a long line of bad luck. Well, I'm now converted. I won't go so far as to say that I'd snatch every single one up I could, but for the price (mid 300), they were outstanding. Had the drive and projection that Dreads are known for, and a real warm sound with full harmonics.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Solid spruce top, mahogony body and sides. I had been thinking dreadnaught because that seems to be the typical size, but I am now intrigued by the 000 and OM. Like I said above, I have no interest in fingerpicking at this point; I want something that will be easy for an electric guy (me) to play right off the bat.

Taylor would be a good choice. What Beandip meant (I think) is Taylor makes a real good acoustic for electric players. Taylor's have thinner necks, lower action and are in general easy to play. I have always described them as a great acoustic for electric players. Taylor's also have a bolt on neck. This will make the neck set easier when it needs to be done, yet I personally feel that a dovetail joint offers better sound transfer from the neck to the box. I on the other hand do not prefer thinner necks low action or thin strings on acoustics. I prefer the Martin type of guitar. I own 3 Martins , but my primary acoustics are Santa Cruz guitars. Basically a Santa Cruz is a hand made Martin.


Be careful with the smaller body. If you bang the guitar hard they can distort. They sre better suited for the finger picker.

Go play a variety and see what works/feels right to you. That is ultimately the bottom line you have to like the way it plays and sounds. Names should not mean that much play a lot just to get a feel for what you like.

 

[VACharvel]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

Thanks Beandip....

I love my Guild Jumbo with the flamed back and sides...for about $800 into it new I have a great sounding and playing acoustic for what I do with them...real flamed maple (not photo flames), ebony board, bone nut/saddle, real Grover's and a very nice tweed case...you can't go wrong.

If the setups were anything like mine was when I got it, I feel for you lol...it was horrible....but like I said, I paid my tech $50 to do a complete set up, fret dress, and clean up the saddles for me and it made a world of difference sound and playability wise.

It's not a high end acoustic, no...I realize that but for what I have into it, it does amazingly well..sounds awesome to me anyway and is very playable.

 

[beandip]

Re: Used Acoustics--Thoughts?

I didn't realize they were reviving the 1 Series..so on that point I stand corrected. As far as the differences between the two, I've owned a 310 and a 410 and thought that both were good guitars but lacked a lot of the lower mids that my Martins have in spades.

Speaking of the "1 series" here are some recordings I made with a 18 year old D-1: myspace.com/eamonnleslie

The 1 series has been revived for about 3 years now. I think it's great to offer a Martin at that price without sacrificing tone or construction.

As for the 310 and the 410, like I said, they're completely different sounds. Martins (dreads) are good for flatpicking bluegrass and strumming. Taylors (dreads) are good for flowing into the mix and shine at finger picking.

One is not better than the other, in terms of quality of tone and construction. They both have their faults (Martin in the 70's, Taylor with the ES system and early stages of the UV cured finish), and both have their strong points.

It's much like the Fender/Gibson analogy I used earlier. Fender is not better than Gibson, Gibson isn't better than Fender. They both have strong points and faults, but they both have their place and really shine at them. I see Fender as Taylor (Bolt on necks, brighter sound, innovative) and Gibson as Martin (set necks, darker sound with more oomph, always traditional, no matter how much they try to escape it).

In the end, Steve, I suggest that you just go around and play every single guitar you can in your price point. They will surprise you and disappoint. But, at the end of the day after probably 2 weeks of searching you'll find one that really jumps out at you and next thing you know, your amp won't be turned on for a month