Using a Les Paul for lead?

[blueman335]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

Les Paul's don't sound one-dimensional to me. Not a bit. Quite the opposite.

+1. I hear LP's as having a relatively balanced EQ, and slightly favoring the mids and low-end. I don't know that by not having the abundance of treble that a Strat does, makes an LP 'compressed.' Maybe a better term is 'not as bright' or 'less top heavy.' Of course, in any guitar, this is going to be impacted by how the player EQ's his rig. I've heard great tones from many kinds of guitars, and likewise, crappy tones from the same models (in the wrong hands).

It would seem that some of us prefer higher frequencies (and those individuals often hear warmer tones as compressed and muffled), and some of us prefer lower middle and frequencies (having a higher sensitivity to treble, and finding it shrill and piercing). Whatever type of ears you have, there's a guitar to fit your needs. And of course, whatever side you're on, the guys who prefer the guitars that you don't, are obviously tone-deaf simpletons who couldn't carry a tune in their pocket.

 

[brunogio]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I play in a band where I'm one of two guitarists that sports an LP. We use a decent amount of gain and tend to EQ the guitars with more low end to do hard rock/metal music.

You can arugue that with this arrangement, the guitars don't cut as much and seem to blend in more with the bass when playing rhythm. Of course most amps out there or even pedals allow you to EQ your lead setting differently to be more bright and of course louder.

So it doesn't hold true that LPs aren't good for playing leads but you can argue that they aren't as bright as other guitars. But this is part of the design and to me part of what makes them sound so full.

I should add that I'm also not a Fender hater.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I'd just like to say that I never cut through the mix with a les paul studio i borrowed, but my jaguar cuts better with the same rig and settings.

 

[phil_104]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I'd just like to say that I never cut through the mix with a les paul studio i borrowed, but my jaguar cuts better with the same rig and settings.

My Les Paul is rather dark, even for a LP, but the Mesa Stiletto still cuts through the mix just fine. Actually, it works out perfectly with the guitar. :cool2:

 

[blueman335]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I play in a band where I'm one of two guitarists that sports an LP...You can arugue that with this arrangement, the guitars don't cut as much and seem to blend in more with the bass when playing rhythm.

So it doesn't hold true that LPs aren't good for playing leads but you can argue that they aren't as bright as other guitars. But this is part of the design and to me part of what makes them sound so full.

I should add that I'm also not a Fender hater.

Actually midrange and lower frequencies project further and don't disperse as quickly as higher frequencies, so they cut thru very well. The only issue is without some treble added for definition, everyone's sound could blurred together. It happens occasionally on stage (maybe in a new venue), but that's easily fixed. Like you said, a nice blend of treble, mid, and bass makes for a full sound and is why LP's can sound so good.

BTW, good taste in guitars, I love to see a band two two LP's, which is an all too uncommon sight. And on your last point, maybe not yet, but give me time. :naughty:

 

[wahwah]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

Actually midrange and lower frequencies project further and don't disperse as quickly as higher frequencies, so they cut thru very well. The only issue is without some treble added for definition, everyone's sound could blurred together. It happens occasionally on stage (maybe in a new venue), but that's easily fixed. Like you said, a nice blend of treble, mid, and bass makes for a full sound and is why LP's can sound so good.

BTW, good taste in guitars, I love to see a band two two LP's, which is an all too u8ncommon sight. And on your last point, maybe not yet, but give me time. :naughty:

The two main problems with this logic are that lower frequencies tend to appear to be more omnidirectional, so they don't actually 'cut' at all...they emanate from a cabinet, and can cause all sorts of problems with a healthy stage balance, in particular with the clarity of bass and kick drum. This is why any decent sound engineer, for most styles of music, will apply a high pass filter across guitar channels when necessary, at a frequency that will help separate these elements. There are of course exceptions in some metal forms, where the bass takes on a clacky midrange quality and detuned guitars dominate the bottom end, but otherwise, this general rule applies. So a lot of that 'thump' that some guitar players like to produce tends to be something to be largely eradicated from a FOH mix.

The second problem is with regard to top end frequencies. The only truly effective way to control tonal eq in the upper frequencies is for it to be applied to the frequencies present in the signal. This means that any attempt to add or enhance frequencies not naturally present in the instrument is only going to increase noise from the electronics of the amp. This is a common problem with Les Pauls, particularly those that seem to be naturally muddy. Trying to add top end that isn't there in the guitar only leads to an increase in noise, which is exacerbated by modern high gain amplifiers. I hear this a lot with Les Paul players particularly, and it's neither pleasant to the ear, nor musical. You can always subtract a frequency if it is present, you cannot add it at the amp if it's not there in the guitar. You will get the illusion of top end, but it's not tone, it's noise.

Having a guitar that is tonally well balanced, no matter what the brand, is the key starting point to good tone, after it leaves the hands. A spikey Strat or a muddy Les Paul are both going to be problematic for different reasons. A well balanced version of either will help. Unfortunately, not all of the guitars that leave the major factories can lay claim to this. That's why it's so important to know the individual instrument, rather than just its model or brand.




Cheers..................................... wahwah

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

+1. I hear LP's as having a relatively balanced EQ, and slightly favoring the mids and low-end. I don't know that by not having the abundance of treble that a Strat does, makes an LP 'compressed.' Maybe a better term is 'not as bright' or 'less top heavy.' Of course, in any guitar, this is going to be impacted by how the player EQ's his rig. I've heard great tones from many kinds of guitars, and likewise, crappy tones from the same models (in the wrong hands).

It would seem that some of us prefer higher frequencies (and those individuals often hear warmer tones as compressed and muffled), and some of us prefer lower middle and frequencies (having a higher sensitivity to treble, and finding it shrill and piercing). Whatever type of ears you have, there's a guitar to fit your needs. And of course, whatever side you're on, the guys who prefer the guitars that you don't, are obviously tone-deaf simpletons who couldn't carry a tune in their pocket.

There are some stinker Les Pauls out there... seems like most of them end up at Guitar Center. But seriously, Gibson's builders have been guilty of too much glue in the neck pocket and that kills sustain and some former employees I've known, say they really DON'T do tone matching or checking before putting necks and bodies together unless they are very expensive CS models. But I digress... I've also played some KILLLLLLER ones. The 1960 one my boss has is, by far, the best one I've ever put in my hands.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

thats why LP's tend to go so well with marshalls. Marshalls like the Plexi, JMP, JCM 800....all had a heavy influence on the higher frequencies like the upper mids and highs and didnt have a ton of bottom or lower mids. Like blue man said, most LP's tend to have a heavy emphasis on the lows and low mids. With the two together, one fills in where the other is lacking. IMO, a les paul and a good marshall and pure heaven......they work together for me anyways

 

[GoDrex]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

yup - a Carvin pickup... he changed things a lot.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

A thread about Les Pauls is perfect bait for blueman335.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

The two main problems with this logic are that lower frequencies tend to appear to be more omnidirectional, so they don't actually 'cut' at all...they emanate from a cabinet, and can cause all sorts of problems with a healthy stage balance, in particular with the clarity of bass and kick drum.

The second problem is with regard to top end frequencies. The only truly effective way to control tonal eq in the upper frequencies is for it to be applied to the frequencies present in the signal. This means that any attempt to add or enhance frequencies not naturally present in the instrument is only going to increase noise from the electronics of the amp. This is a common problem with Les Pauls, particularly those that seem to be naturally muddy. Trying to add top end that isn't there in the guitar only leads to an increase in noise, which is exacerbated by modern high gain amplifiers. I hear this a lot with Les Paul players particularly, and it's neither pleasant to the ear, nor musical. You can always subtract a frequency if it is present, you cannot add it at the amp if it's not there in the guitar. You will get the illusion of top end, but it's not tone, it's noise.

Muddy tones are not the exclusive domain of LP's, as I've heard it when there hasn't been a Gibson on stage (and have talked to the sound guys to correct the problem). Likewise, instrument EQ's can get tangled up in the high-end too, between Fenders, slide guitars, cymbals, etc. And that's not necessarily a pleasant experience. In spite of any rumors to the contrary, LP's are not devoid of treble, especially when they have PAF's. It's there, it just doesn't dominate.

There's many views and tastes in this. While you often find LP's bassy and muddy, I hear most SSS Strats as thin and piercing, and lacking musical tones. It's just what we've each gotten used to. Zhang summed it up in a post a couple years ago, when he said (and I'm quoting from memory): "When a player goes from a Strat to an LP, it sounds thick and dark to him; when a player goes from an LP to a Strat, it sounds like a mosquito."

 

[blueman335]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

A thread about Les Pauls is perfect bait for blueman335.

Yeah, I took the bait. Don't knock LP's and expect me to stay silent. :naughty:

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

Yeah, I took the bait. Don't knock LP's and expect me to stay silent. :naughty:

The more I play and get older, the more I just want it to sound good on bluesy, classic rock type material. Hence the reason for playing my Epiphone Les Pauls most of the time while my other guitars sit.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

My Les Paul is rather dark, even for a LP, but the Mesa Stiletto still cuts through the mix just fine. Actually, it works out perfectly with the guitar. :cool2:

Then again, I was playing a JCM800. maybe fender bark + marshall bark = BARK

if i had a les paul Jr. it would be bark bark bark.

oh god i need a les paul jr

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I saw Jeff Beck three nights in a row: two at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit and the third night at the Fifth Dimension in Ann Arbor. 1967...no later than 1968. That photo is from one of those shows. Jeff was making his way through the crowd at the Grande Ballroom bare chested, just like that and cradling his natural finished Les Paul in both arms when I, an 18 year old kid, walked up and said "Can I shake your hand? You're my favorite guitarist!". Jeff said "Oh -that's great!" and put his Les Paul in his left hand and shook my hand. It was a great show too! Lew

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I saw Jeff Beck three nights in a row: two at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit and the third night at the Fifth Dimension in Ann Arbor. 1967...no later than 1968. That photo is from one of those shows. Jeff was making his way through the crowd at the Grande Ballroom bare chested, just like that and cradling his natural finished Les Paul in both arms when I, an 18 year old kid, walked up and said "Can I shake your hand? You're my favorite guitarist!". Jeff said "Oh -that's great!" and put his Les Paul in his left hand and shook my hand. It was a great show too! Lew

great story Lew! :friday:

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

Then again, I was playing a JCM800. maybe fender bark + marshall bark = BARK

if i had a les paul Jr. it would be bark bark bark.

oh god i need a les paul jr

ya my LP and JCM800 sound like magic together

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Using a Les Paul for lead?

I saw Jeff Beck three nights in a row: two at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit and the third night at the Fifth Dimension in Ann Arbor. 1967...no later than 1968. That photo is from one of those shows. Jeff was making his way through the crowd at the Grande Ballroom bare chested, just like that and cradling his natural finished Les Paul in both arms when I, an 18 year old kid, walked up and said "Can I shake your hand? You're my favorite guitarist!". Jeff said "Oh -that's great!" and put his Les Paul in his left hand and shook my hand. It was a great show too! Lew

Ah, so cool indeed!