Vapor Trail's input sensitivity/headroom?

[Heavy]

Hi. I've googled this to death and called and talked with a tech at Duncan which was a waste.. Hopefully someone here can answer what I thought would be a simple question. I want to know if the Vapor Trail can work in my amp's effects loop which is 1 Volt, (a weak line level).

Boss and MXR pedals do not work well, they clip and produce a nasty static and the repeats are so gritty and buzzy. They are made only to be used at instrument level. But TC Electronic pedals are very clean and work well. I notice most of the nicer made pedals, like the Eventide, some Maxon, as well as TC stuff can handle hotter signal. Hoping the Vapor Trail can. I can't find this, and figure this is my last hope. The Duncan tech's response when I called was "there's a mix knob to mix the dry signal with effect," which is not what I'm asking at all. I asked again, specifically about the headroom and he didn't seem to understand what I was talking about. But said he'd find out and send me an email. I never got a response on that. Kinda shocked, Figured this would've come up a lot since the pedal has been out for a year or so.

Appreciate it if anyone can give me any info on it. thanks.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Vapor Trail's input sensitivity/headroom?

I'm going to assume the terminology you used with the SD tech was not of the same definition that the SD tech goes by.

The simple answer is "yes", but this is only to say "you can connect your VT unit in the loop of your 1 watt wonder". Will it deliver results that please you? Only you can answer that.

What the tech was suggesting to you is that if you find the level of the effect is overloading your 1-watt-wonder's loop return, you can control how much effect signal is passed to the return via the unit's Mix knob. This is an acceptable answer, and holds true for any unit with a similar function run through anything else - mixer, better amp, etc.

Alternatively, you can stick a Compressor/Limiter between the VT's output and the amp's return to catch spikes.

Furthermore, you should have an understanding of both the amp's capabilities AND its requirements, as well as those of the Vapor Trail; does the amp's Send put out a signal that is too hot for the VT? Does the VT Output exceed the capacity of the amp's Return? You say "a weak line level" - is that the signal from the VT or the high limit of the loop? Does the VT accept Line Level input? Does the amp Send Line Level or Instrument Level? Does the VT output Line Level or Instrument Level, and is the amp's Return expecting Line or Instrument Level?

You offer no details here. Did you offer those details to SD tech support before denouncing them as useless?

 

[Heavy]

Re: Vapor Trail's input sensitivity/headroom?

I'm going to assume the terminology you used with the SD tech was not of the same definition that the SD tech goes by.

The simple answer is "yes", but this is only to say "you can connect your VT unit in the loop of your 1 watt wonder". Will it deliver results that please you? Only you can answer that.

What the tech was suggesting to you is that if you find the level of the effect is overloading your 1-watt-wonder's loop return, you can control how much effect signal is passed to the return via the unit's Mix knob. This is an acceptable answer, and holds true for any unit with a similar function run through anything else - mixer, better amp, etc.

Alternatively, you can stick a Compressor/Limiter between the VT's output and the amp's return to catch spikes.

Furthermore, you should have an understanding of both the amp's capabilities AND its requirements, as well as those of the Vapor Trail; does the amp's Send put out a signal that is too hot for the VT? Does the VT Output exceed the capacity of the amp's Return? You say "a weak line level" - is that the signal from the VT or the high limit of the loop? Does the VT accept Line Level input? Does the amp Send Line Level or Instrument Level? Does the VT output Line Level or Instrument Level, and is the amp's Return expecting Line or Instrument Level?

You offer no details here. Did you offer those details to SD tech support before denouncing them as useless?

I gave more than enough details. The tech was not knowledgeable about any of this. I simply wanted to know if the pedal in designed for instrument use only or can handle hotter line level. The mix knob is not a gain/sensitivity knob, it's only gonna allow less/more effect come through, that is NOT what I'm asking. I gave EXACT info that is on my amp's rear. So he could help me determine if it would work. says "1 Volt/line level" (not 1 watt, you might want to work on reading better wonder boy) BTW, Line Level is generally considered as +4 dBu and I read that's 1.25 V, so the amp is a weaker line level because it's 1 Volt. The amp's designer told me, it's a bit weaker,yet still line level signal. So that's what I specified. Trying to give as much info as I can!!!

Of course there are no level controls on my amp, if there were, I would not have the issue. Duh.. But forget about my amp. Maybe I would like to use with other amps. Simply wanting an answer if it can handle hotter/line level signals before clipping.

Here's is what is in the TC Elect. manual -

"All TonePrint pedals have a very wide gain range and are designed to run at both instru- ment and line level."

Digitech's Hardwire pedals state the SAME thing. Saying they work well in hotter effects loop too. These are digital, and I'm looking for an analog, so I'm trying to find this out before I order one. that's all I want to know, if the VT has a wider range as well. Seems like a simple question to me. No need to make it over-complicated. KISS.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Vapor Trail's input sensitivity/headroom?

Most pedals...being pedals...are designed for instrument level.
And loops used to be parallel mostly back in the days (rack equipment running parallel and at line levels).

 

[Heavy]

Re: Vapor Trail's input sensitivity/headroom?

Most pedals...being pedals...are designed for instrument level.
And loops used to be parallel mostly back in the days (rack equipment running parallel and at line levels).

While that used to be.. More and more pedals are being made with what I've been looking for. What I've been trying to tell you guys.

On the TC Electronics states in the Nova pedaals manual it says headroom is +16dBu while all their smaller pedals can handle up to +6 dBu for good range. It says you will NOT clip the input on the Nova.

From Pigtronix,-"Fully capable of handling instrument and line level sound sources, the Echolution 2 delivers low-noise, high-headroom delay processing with any amp, mixer or DAW rig."

From Digitech on their delay pedal - DigiTech HardWire pedals incorporate circuitry that increases the operating voltage headroom above that of the typical pedal. That means the HardWire DL-8 delay looper pedal can work with a wider range of guitars and is also at home in your amplifier's effects loop."

I found quite a few more, but you see, these companies can list it, I just wanted to know if the VT had good headroom, and seems to be difficult to find the answer, unless I buy it to try. If it doesn't work, I have to send it back, and I'm out shipping. I thought maybe someone here would be know the answer or maybe someone that uses it, how I'd like to.