Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

[Greyfox]

Ok I'll admit it, I want EVERYTHING from my Strats, but, let's see how close we can get in reality. I've been playing for several decades and am currently playing in a 10 piece horn band that covers a HUGE variety of music (Rock, Heavy Metal, Country, Blues, Motown, Pop top 40, etc...). I am playing through one of only 25 (in the world) Zinky Custom Encore amps, which is a 60 watt, 3 channel, single 12", open-backed combo amp. I've played through Marshall amps most of my life, but this little monster is a Marshall-eater when it comes super-rich, buttery distortion. Through the effects loop I use a Boss ME50 which, for what I do, is all I need. All cables are Mogami, occasionally I'm wireless, all miked through a good old SM 57.

I have 2 Strats that need a makeover tonally. I was going the EMG route, but I feel that they somehow lack the "three dimensionality" and dynamic range that I remember getting from passive pups. One Strat is a 73' with maple fingerboard, bone nut, huge frets, Alder body and tremelo blocked. The other is an 80's Heavy Metal Strat with just the word "STRAT" on the headstock (they didn't make a lot of these), that originally came with a Kahler Syder tremelo which I have changed out for a German Floyd Rose, basswood body, and rosewood neck.

I want both of these in the bridge to sound like Van Halen (with a coil-tap for single coil work), in the neck like Stevie Ray, in the middle a nice wide range tone ( I play a lot of clean rythyms here), and in the 2 and 4 positions a Knopfler tone. The catch, they have to be as noisless as possible. I have some original German Schallers that I lifted off of an older gutiar that fit the bill for studio work, but they are way too noisy for the stage, and the humbucker wasn't really the proper spacing.

So, what do you think? Please help me in my quest to find the Holy Grail!

Thanks for your Expertise.

 

[guitarsrock5]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

hey welcome to the forum
for the bridge try a jb jr. single coil pickup. mark

 

[guitarsrock5]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

or a little 59 single coil. the jb jr. and the little 59 are humbucker in single coil pickups u might be looking for those cause eddie used humbuckers

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

Trying to get those three very different sounds from one guitar will be close to, if not, impossible. What I reccommend you do is to set one guitar up for your classic strat sounds (Knopfler/SRV) and the other for more modern, rockin' tones.

I propose you use the 73 for your regular strat tones.

For the SRV and Knoplfer tones, you can use a set of SSL-1's, or better yet, a set of Surfers. They're not noiseless, but they do have the sound you're looking for. If you do require a low noise single, Duncan's Classic Stack might be up your alley, though I don't have much experience with low noise or stacked singles.

For your other strat, if money is not a problem, Duncan's Custom shop EVH pickup would work well in the bridge for early Van Halen tones. For more modern sounds, the CC would do the job. In the neck, a Cool Rails would give you smooth, loud punchy cleans, while a Vintage Rails will give you a modern strat sound with no noise.

 

[stevie_bees]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

I think a JB in the bridge and SSL-1's in middle and neck. I use the SSL's with a Twanbanger, which covers most bases considering there's no humbucker. The JB would give you bridge beef and still remain pretty versatile.

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

If you can go with a full size humbucker, a custom custom will get you the Van Halen sound and will split very nicely. The JB is probably a little more versatile, but I've never heard one split. Maybe someone else can let you know on that.

If you stick with single coil size, go with a JB Jr or Little 59.

If you want noise free, you'll have to go with minibuckers (not great for SRV), stacks, or similar in the neck and middle.

 

[zak]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

Its not easy to get those sounds out of one guitar, but i think you can get close. If you want knopfler/ vaughan sound you need real single coils. If they have got to be noiseless have a look at Kinmans:
http://www.kinman.com/html/myProducts/strats.htm
The main thing is, dont go for something too high in output considering the sounds you are after.

I think the bridge pickup is trickier. One very important thing to consider is the output of the bridge pickup, and this is where the biggest compromise may have to be made. If you go for a higher output bridge pickup (say one with a resistance of around 14k or more like the CC or JB), you will get a much better split sound than going for a lower output pickup like a 59. But in full humbucker mode the output will not balance well with your single coils, and IMO such pickups are too high in ouput to get a good early classic EVH type sound.


In an ideal situation a full size humbucker would be the best solution, but i presume that is a no-no in your '73 at least. In this case, look at the little 59 or JB.
If you can get a full size humbucker (at least in your other guitar), the main thing to consider, as said above, is the output. A JB/CC will give go good tapped sounds, but will not balance well. And the tapped sounds in a 59 would be too thin, and too low in output compared to the single coils.

So perhaps a good solution would be to get a lil 59 in the 73 strat, but with the compromise that you only use it in full humbucker mode.
Then, in the other guitar, get a higher output pickup like the JB or CC. Both of these pickups have a suitable output in tapped mode to work with typical 6k-7k single coils. I have tried both pickups in tapped mode, and the JB works better (better EQ balance), but the JB is a bit high in output to get an early EVH sound.

good luck

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

Its not easy to get those sounds out of one guitar, but i think you can get close. If you want knopfler/ vaughan sound you need real single coils. If they have got to be noiseless have a look at Kinmans:
http://www.kinman.com/html/myProducts/strats.htm
The main thing is, dont go for something too high in output considering the sounds you are after.

Good advice -- I second the Kinmans, particularly the 69 Strat model he has for the neck for SRV tones.

I think the bridge pickup is trickier. One very important thing to consider is the output of the bridge pickup, and this is where the biggest compromise may have to be made. If you go for a higher output bridge pickup (say one with a resistance of around 14k or more like the CC or JB), you will get a much better split sound than going for a lower output pickup like a 59. But in full humbucker mode the output will not balance well with your single coils, and IMO such pickups are too high in ouput to get a good early classic EVH type sound.

Legitimate issue but you CAN use a lower output bucker like the 59 (or perhaps the Custom Shop's EVH 78 model, which is wound a little hotter) and get a decent "single coil" sound.

The problem: a 4k single coil pickup (a split 59) just won't cut it.

The solution: Just wire it up for Spin-A-Split and you can dial in as much or as little of the second coil as you want -- and get everything from pure single coil to P90 to minihumbucker to full on humbucker, and everything in between. The only down side is you have to give up one of your tone pots for this function, unless you put in a push/pull pot that will allow you to switch one of your tone pots to Spin-A-Split mode.

Duncan's Custom Shop does have an EVH model (officially "Evenly Voiced Harmonics" but we know what it really means) and it's wound a bit hotter than the 59 -- somewhere around 9k I think. It's a little pricer but something to consider.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

I don't think one Strat can really do it all...

If you have two Strats, set one up with full size humbuckers and one up with Antiquity single coils.

I'm not fan of S/S/HB Strats...the bridge humbucker always overpowers vintage output single coils, and vintage output single coils are a "must have" for true SRV & Knopfler tone.

My favorite Strat has the Antiquity Surfers in the neck and middle and the Antiquity Texas Hot Custom as the bridge pickup, though a Twangbanger is even stronger as a bridge pickup and also excellant.

My Strat with two humbuckers has a Pearly Gates neck and 59 Trembucker as the bridge pickup. The Alnico II Pro neck humbucker would also be a great choice. If you want the EVH tone from the bridge pickup the 59 will do that beautifully...but even better might be the Custom Shop '78, so that, or a Custom Custom might be a better choice for you.

Lew

 

[Greyfox]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

First let me say that the speed of your responses and the level of advice I'm getting here is truly amazing, and I am very thankful and deeply appreciative of your time and expertise.

I should have further mentioned that the 73' Strat has already been routed for a humbucker, and that the other Strat is set up for s/s/h.

The way I have the EMG's (SA/SA/89) currently set up is that when I split the 89 into single coil, it balances in volume with the SA's. The 89 in humbucking mode of course is considerable louder than everything else, but I use this to my advantage because I mainly only use humbucking for solos, which I want a lot louder to stand out over the band. I do use it for loud rock songs, but I think the boost in volume tranforms us from a pop band into a power rock trio, so it works in this situation too.

I also use an SPC variable midrange boost control (up to 20db) to help crank up the single coils for solos, or to help fatten up the 89 in single coil mode because it's too thin for some things.

I am really intrigued by this Spin-a-Split idea, but I've never heard of it. Could you please elaborate.

The 59' was my first choice for the humbucker position, but I don't know if balancing it in single coil with the others (volume wise) will give me the tones I'm looking for. It's ok if in humbucking mode whatever pu I use overpowers everything else, for the reasons stated above.

So I'm thinking that selecting the single coils should'nt be too hard, but that the humbucker in single coil, and how it blends with the middle pu, and then how close it can come to a Van Halen tone in full humbucking is the trick.

Also, I'm going to have to crank up the single coils, especially the neck pu for solos. I'd like to do it in such a way that the extra gain also introduces a little more distortion, like I'm doing with the SPC on the EMG's. Does anyone make a straight onboard volume boost switch for passive pu's, or can anyone think of a better way of doing this. I could just turn down the volume on the guitar like in the old days, but I hate to sacrifice any tone (which is one of the reasons I went with EMG"S in the first place).

Oh, and this. I never use my tone pots, so those spaces are available, and both guitars can accept mini toggle switches.

Again, Many Thanks.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Vaughn/Van Halen/Knopfler

The way I have my Strat set up comes very close to what you are looking for. It has a Pearly Gates in the bridge (the A2 version, not the A5 PG+ that came with the Lone Star Strats) and Fender Texas Specials in the mid and neck. The 5 position switch is wired like a S/S/S switch, and I also have a mini toggle to switch the PG from full humbucker to front coil only.

Although the PG is a tad more powerful than the single coils, the difference isn't severe enough to complain about. I get an excellent SRV tone on neck or middle stand-alone, and with the PG running in split coil mode I can get a very convincing Knopfler/Clapton sound from the notch positions. The front coil of the PG matches very nicely with the middle Tex Special. In full humbucker mode, the PG is about as close as I have ever heard to the early EVH tone. I can also get some very interesting and unique sounds with both PG coils on in combination with the middle Tex Special.

That being said, it does have some limitations. The PG on its own, even in split coil mode, is no perfect substitute for a real Strat single coil. I have always found Strat bridge pickups to be too harsh anyway, so I rarely miss it. Like I said, it sounds passable when combined with the middle pickup, but don't expect any vintage Strat bridge tones out of this thing.

Best of luck!