vibrato and bends

[always SD]

hi

as you know, all vibratos system give bad bends because they are linked to the vibrato
i am talking about strat and vintage vibrato /tremolo but floyd rose too

in my opinion, best guitars are guitars without vibrato
because the bridge does not move

so, do you have a solution and why Fender has not a system even in high-end guitars or custom shop?

now, i would like a Clapton strat because the vibrato is blocked with springs : a good thing for bends
but what a pity !
best thing to have would be a thing for vibrato but without blocking a vibrato !

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: vibrato and bends

......work harder...
The rest is just whinging

 

[Wolfshead]

Re: vibrato and bends

I don't think my vibrato suffers if I'm playing one of my Floyd-equipped guitars compared to one of the hard-tail ones. It's about technique.
It's also subjective. I've heard people saying Dave Murray bends notes out of tune, ditto Kirk Hammett, yet both those guys are legends and rightly so.

I've never tried a Kahler bridge - don't they work as you describe?

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: vibrato and bends

The reason why the standard strat trem hasn't changed much is because Leo Fender got it right from the start.

Seriously though... I'm not sure what you mean by "bad bends" but I think Clapton, Hendrix, Stevie Ray, Ritchie Blackmore, Jeff Beck and EVH would disagree with you.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: vibrato and bends

try this for a strat.
use two springs for your trem and tighten them so the bridge sits flat on the deck, then tighten it a few turns more.
Set up and intonate your guitar.
play low E, and bend up on your B string 3 frets.
If the pitch of the low note dives, tighten the trem spring screws one turn and repeat the process.
If the low note stays put, then loosen the trem spring screws by a turn and retest.
Keep going until you find the point where the springs are as loose as possible while still preventing low note dive.
You can have your cake and eat it too. You don't need five springs for stability. You can have a smooth trem action and bending stability.
if you are heavy handed with the trem, do the same process but use 3 springs.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: vibrato and bends

I don't have any issues doing vibrato or accurate step and a half bends on a fully floating floyd. There's a little difference in feel between that and a hard tail 335, but not enough to cause problems.

The trem guitar of course doesn't work well for doing pedal steel type licks where you bend one note and hold another . . . but the hard tail doesn't do too well for trem type shaken chords or lowering the pitch of notes. Every axe has some trade-offs.

 

[AlexR]

Re: vibrato and bends

Bending is the art of moving the string until it hits the right note.

Trem bar or not, this element still remains the same.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: vibrato and bends

Bending is the art of moving the string until it hits the right note.

Trem bar or not, this element still remains the same.

Was just about to say this. I've never had any problems with bending and i have 3 floyd rose equipped guitars (One which had a standard fender bridge and i modded to have a floyd). I can generally get up to any pitch i want no problem including 2+ tone/step bends ala Gilmour or whoever. If i combine a bend with the floyd i can go even higher, which i do occasionally. It's a preference thing. Some hate the bars, others love it.

 

[C-Martin]

Re: vibrato and bends

On a different note, there are devices out there or solution to this problem if it bothers you. The issue your talking about is generally when the trem is set to float, but flush mounting or blocking the trem will stabilize the trem which will prevent it from moving when you bend. There's even a device called a back box (There are many different ones out there too, but work the same) that uses a spring mechanism which allows you to keep the trem floating but stabalized and still be able to move it up or down in pitch.

 

[J E C]

Re: vibrato and bends

Seriously though... I'm not sure what you mean by "bad bends" but I think Clapton, Hendrix, Stevie Ray, Ritchie Blackmore, Jeff Beck and EVH would disagree with you.

Mite as well add..... Vai, Satch, Gilmour, Lynch, Stevens, John McLaughlin, Lifeson, Nugent, Schon.... to the list, just for some more versatility.

My bridge of choice is a full floating OFR. I don"t have any problems with bending to pitch even doing double stops. With a double stop you just have to bend 2 strings up to the same and proper pitch. Just takes practice.

If a vibrato isn't your thing.... I can dig it, no problem.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: vibrato and bends

As stated above, it can be set so the bridge won't move. I have an American Standard with 4 springs, you practically have to pick up the guitar by the low E to get the bridge to move, but I can still use the arm all I want.

Just like the tuning problems people have with Strats, if it's not working, you probably don't have it set up right.

 

[EDX]

Re: vibrato and bends

super V mag lock, is a trem accesory, works for any fullcrum, it takes the place of a spring, it's basically an isolated magnetical locking system, wich locks trems when you bend the strings, but the locking will easly "break" as you use the tremolo bar, super v claims it's so sensible with tha trem bar that you can keep doing flutter and any kind of light or heavy trem wankery, but when bending the thing will act as a fixed bridge

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: vibrato and bends

The OP is right in some aspects.

Larry LaLonde uses a Tele on songs where he's bending a lot and doesn't want the Strat trems to come into play. Trems can make bending a little harder. I've very rarely touched a trem equipped guitar and I don't plan on doing it much in the future.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: vibrato and bends

I just have my Floyd set to dive only, resting against the body. It feels like a hardtail, and the vibrato system only moves when you want it to. Also, a trick I use when you have a dive-only Floyd Rose, but want the sound of a pull up, is to pre-bend the string before hitting it, depress the bar, hit the string (while still holding it in the bend), and then bring the bar back up. It's not perfect, but it works well enough. The only thing you really can't do is using it for up-and-down vibtrato on full chords. If you really know how to use your vibrato system, having it set to dive only doesn't limit you that much IMO. I also see vibrato systems as a tool, rather than a playing style. Use it when it would sound fitting.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: vibrato and bends

I just have my Floyd set to dive only, resting against the body. It feels like a hardtail, and the vibrato system only moves when you want it to. Also, a trick I use when you have a dive-only Floyd Rose, but want the sound of a pull up, is to pre-bend the string before hitting it, depress the bar, hit the string (while still holding it in the bend), and then bring the bar back up. It's not perfect, but it works well enough. The only thing you really can't do is using it for up-and-down vibtrato on full chords. If you really know how to use your vibrato system, having it set to dive only doesn't limit you that much IMO. I also see vibrato systems as a tool, rather than a playing style. Use it when it would sound fitting.

Sometimes one doesn't never needs a certain tool. I prefer the sustain from a solid body with a hardtail bridge. Simplicity.

 

[koshikas]

Re: vibrato and bends

if we are talking fender type synchronized tremolo systems, the problems that the OP stated could mostly be avoided by having the base-plate of the tremolo system decked flat against the body. i have my strat copy guitar setup this way and have no problems with vibrato, bends and even not so ambitious double stop bends.

on my other shred-stick with fully floating trem, i've been somewhat lucky. i use 10-46 strings and the springs are set bit stiff to counter the added string pull. while i cant go far with bends and double stop bends, without knocking other strings slightly out of tune i still have no issues bending single notes to pitch and certainly no issues with vibrato.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: vibrato and bends

There is more to it than just the setup of the trem.
Neck stiffness, technique, springs, angle of the neck.
Personally I never had trouble bending and using vibrato on a strat or vibrato equipped guitar.

I find most hardtails to be stiff unresponsive sticks....Almost gave up on my Tele as well, until I got the "brilliant" idea of setting it up in a different way Haha Typical guitartech, never has ones own guitars worked over!
Anyways the op is a complainer in many respects
Shut up and play......the only way to learn your way around an instrument, nothing is perfect...and thank the gods for that...or we would all die of boredom in our short lives!

 

[always SD]

Re: vibrato and bends

Clapton has a better playing because he blocked the vibrato with 5 springs

with bad bends, i meant wrong notes
to have real good bends you must bend your string and take your vibrato bar in the same time
(it's funny to have this others notes but i would have liked to have this without taking my bar in the same time)

without a tremolo, no problem because the system does not move at all
try to bend a note and you will see that the low e string moves so, how can you have good notes? impossible
that's why i prefer guitar without a tremolo because the notes will be good notes
a lot of people have a tremsetter too but i don't want to try this

i noticed that with my strat i had to bend a note with taking my tremolo bar at the same time to have the same note that i had with a sg for example

so, my strat needs more effort just to have 1 whole step bend

that's why my next Strat will be the EC model and with that: no problem !

i talked to a guitarist and he said me the same thing: buy a tremsetter or other thing
and like you i told him Satriani and other had not this
but he does not care lol

- with my strat if just play a little bend from g to a, it won't be perfect
or i had to play a bigger bend just for go to from G to A

- an easy solution is taking the bar at the same time but remember this each time you bend a note is boring

(interesting effects but you must remember this each time you bend that's why i prefer guitar without vibrato because i can make bigger bends than with a vibrato
with less effort)

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: vibrato and bends

.....

 

[always SD]

Re: vibrato and bends

lol
interesting comment