Vibro Champ XD

[guitfiddle]

This little guy gets overlooked by the huge crowd surrounding the Super Champ XD, but every time I've used this one, it just kicks a$$. It runs one power tube, so it gets more of that kind of saturation in the overall sound. I used the tweed/hot setting, number 3 on the voice dial, with the gain on 5-6 and the volume on ten.

Used it last night practicing for a gig at Lefthand Brewing's tasting room tonight, and it more than does the job. The other guitarist in the band uses a '73(?) LP Custom into a Deluxe Reverb ll, and his comment on the VCXD was "That little guy has got some sack." I want to try the Super version, and see if it performs as well in the band situation.

I think Fender has the modeling/tube thing right with these more so than the offerings from other amp companies. Cranking a real tube amp just gives it the mojo that most modellers lack.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I went nuts talking about it a coupla weeks ago on here after I tested one at sam ash.

Gearjoneser busted out a CRAZY youtube vid of the SCXD one that sounded amazing.

I think I'm back to wanting the vibro XD simply because I love small and simple - plus even at that size it still has an extension out - that's uncommon. and you could easily drop in a new power tube if it goes out down the road.

waiting for a cheap one used. I figure for 2 bones new, they should eventually go for $100-125 used, which would be awesome!

I lie in wait.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I have the super champ xd. Great amp, and it's still pretty loud. The vibro champ is a lower wattage version

 

[greatbob6]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

When I was looking around for an amp with better cleans I was investigating these and the Super Champ XD. I was more interested in the Super because it looked like it had an all tube preamp for the base clean sound and then modeling features on top, whereas the Vibro didn't have the tube preamp. Unfortunately, I never got a chance to check one out because the one they had at the local GC was broken, and then I ended up deciding I personally liked the AC15 tone better than the Fender cleans (perfect world I'd have both).

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

Eventually, I'll get one of the Super Champ XD's. A couple weeks ago, I blew the chance to buy a new/used one for $185. I'm sure the first caller nabbed that one!

When I tried the Vibro and Super side by side, the Super Champ was the clear winner.....to my ears, it sounded better. Considering they're not that far apart in price, I think the Super is worth the extra $100.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I hear you..the SCXD is a bit clearer, but I think the little one has a bit more of the power tube thing. Maybe not much, but more. That goes a good way in a blues rock band like the ones I play in.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

looked like it had an all tube preamp for the base clean sound and then modeling features on top, whereas the Vibro didn't have the tube preamp.

it's technically the opposite. It's a completely DSP preamp, a 12AX7 PI, and a 6v6 Power amp. Digital pre, tube power. Both amps have the same preamp.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I hear you..the SCXD is a bit clearer, but I think the little one has a bit more of the power tube thing. Maybe not much, but more. That goes a good way in a blues rock band like the ones I play in.

Blues rock along the lines of Marc Ford is what I do too. One of the best tones I heard out of those little Fenders was a LP Jr. with dog ear P-90.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

i'm a fan of these little amps... i like Fenders SS and Digital offerings for some sounds and practice uses...

 

[greatbob6]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

it's technically the opposite. It's a completely DSP preamp, a 12AX7 PI, and a 6v6 Power amp. Digital pre, tube power. Both amps have the same preamp.

Interesting...according to WikiPedia (which is the answer to everything) the 12AX7 works as both a secondary gain stage, after the digital circuit, and the PI. So what's the deal with the two channels then? Does the first channel bypass the DSP whereas the second channel includes the DSP with amp modeling? Or the first channel just has one preset tone setting in the DSP?

 

[jmh151]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

There was debate on the Fender boards about this about the Super Champ. The first channel, the clean champ channel, is straight tube. The second channel with the 16 voicings is still tube, but has a digital modeler added in, similar to adding a stomp box.

At least that's what I've repeatedly read

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

There was debate on the Fender boards about this about the Super Champ. The first channel, the clean champ channel, is straight tube. The second channel with the 16 voicings is still tube, but has a digital modeler added in, similar to adding a stomp box.

At least that's what I've repeatedly read

You're right, and that's one nice thing about the amp....you can use it like an old Super Champ or switch over to your favorite of the modeling preamp.

My main disappointment is the lack of a headphone out.

I stumbled upon a guy who A/B'd the new Super Champ against the early 80's Rivera Super Champ II. He stated that the new one sounded better.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

The Clean channel on the Super Champ takes pedals extremely well too. It really loves my Boss ds1, and Vox Saturator, giving a tone dead close to my Marshall JCM800 2210.

I double checked. Besides wattage, the difference between the vibro and super champ is on the vibro champ, the modeling is always on, whereas on the super you have the independent clean all tube channel in addition to the seco d one with modeling

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

Off BillM's site. He's mods Blues Jrs and a lot of guys here probably have seen his posts on TDPRI or wherever.

"The incoming guitar signal first sees a TL072, and it goes through both stages. From there, it’s routed to the DSP. When it emerges from the DSP, the signal is balanced, with + and – outputs. Another TL072 integrates the signals and turns them back into a single-ended mono signal. Then the signal goes to the first stage of a 4560. From there it goes to half of the 12AX7, which buffers the signal and drives the phase inverter half of the 12AX7."

I've boosted the crap out of the clean channel on the SCXD I owned at full volume, and into the amp's emulated direct out, and into an attenuator's direct out. The clipping in it is nothing like the smooth tube clipping we like. It's harsh and unmusical. It's the same voicing as voice 4 on the second channel. PERIOD.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I double checked. Besides wattage, the difference between the vibro and super champ is on the vibro champ, the modeling is always on, whereas on the super you have the independent clean all tube channel in addition to the seco d one with modeling

the people who can read the schematic generally say it is ALL DSP on both channels. That's why there's no pots on the knobs, it's a completely digital "tone stack". EVERYTHING in the tone shaping is digital/solid state in channel 1 and two, it just uses a tube power amp for dynamics and warmth, not tone generation or clipping.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

I owned a VCXD briefly. I'll agree the modelling was QUITE good, and def warmer, and musicl than typical plastic L6/Roland type sounds. However it was also very high endy, noisy, and brittle- could have been a tube, or just the chintsy construction & speaker. at any rate, I returned it.

IDK if my VCXD was a fluke, or representative of the whole, but a year or so later I played a SCXD, and felt it was much better than the VCXD I had. I wouldn't mind owning one.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

Welll, it performed well last night.

At show levels, I have to agree that the speaker leaves much to be desired...the tone could get brittle if I wasn't careful. Certainly not loud enough without micing up, unless that band you're in never plays very hard...but that ain't my band.

On the Super Champ version, I remember that the model side runs the signal through a 12AX7, which is just like a preamp getting overdriven, so it adds that to the model sounds.

Either way, when the volume gets up enough, the power amp adds it's goodness, but to a lesser degree than the VCXD. This would make a bit of difference, as the VC really gets thick up that loud.

Now, OD pedals and boosters don't act just like they do in front of a tube amp, but if you take a bit of time to adjust things, they preform well enough. I think the real use of these amps is so that a player can find the voice that works best for them, then adjust it all from the guitar, at which these amps are just as good as any tube amp I've played. They do that well enough that I was able to leave my OD pedal out of the picture altoghether. Just Tele, cord and VCXD.

The Ragin' Cajun is the replacement speaker of choice for the SCXD, and I bet there's a Weber 8" that will wake up the VC version.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

the people who can read the schematic generally say it is ALL DSP on both channels. That's why there's no pots on the knobs, it's a completely digital "tone stack". EVERYTHING in the tone shaping is digital/solid state in channel 1 and two, it just uses a tube power amp for dynamics and warmth, not tone generation or clipping.

Mind you, when you put the model volume of one of these little guys on ten, the power amp WILL distort in the way everyone likes. You simply can't push the front end, but the power amp is saturatable, just like any other if the volume gets high enough.

The SC just makes less, as it's an A/B design, and won't saturate as much anyway. If you desire tube OD from these, the VCXD has more.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

it's technically the opposite. It's a completely DSP preamp, a 12AX7 PI, and a 6v6 Power amp. Digital pre, tube power. Both amps have the same preamp.

Remember that both amps have a 12AX7 tube as the driver tube(VC)/PI (in the SC) When you turn the volume up high enough, these 12AX7 tubes WILL distort. Distorting the 12Ax7 in most power amps is a big way amp companies squawk about power amp distortion, without having to run things hot enough to really distort the power tubes much.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Vibro Champ XD

Remember that both amps have a 12AX7 tube as the driver tube(VC)/PI (in the SC) When you turn the volume up high enough, these 12AX7 tubes WILL distort. Distorting the 12Ax7 in most power amps is a big way amp companies squawk about power amp distortion, without having to run things hot enough to really distort the power tubes much.

When I said I've boosted the crap out of my SCXD at full volume, I mean that I turned channel 1 of my SCXD up to 10 plenty of times and all I've ever heard was speaker breakup, nice dynamics, and sustain, but (without boosting) never any breakup except a very very light buzz/fizz if I really hit the strings, and (with boosting) some pretty nasty, rough buzzing. I also tested that by then adding my weber attenuator to it and bringing the volume back to under the speaker's threshold, and a lot of all of that went away.


Also posted by BillM in the TDPRI
"The first half of the 12AX7 amplifies from line level to the level needed by the phase inverter. The concertina PI in the SCXD, like the Princeton Reverb, has no gain, so the voltage sufficient to drive the output tubes comes from the previous stage."

At least in the SCXD, The concertina PI scheme isn't meant to break up, and it does a little, eventually, but not particularly musically.

The channel 2 sounds almost all have more gain and volume than channel 1, and likely provide the possibility for more power tube breakup, if one has the amp biased well (I believe they bias it cold from the factory), But it's not the same (added brightness, big increase in punch, much thicker grind) that I've experienced with any other 6v6 amp (Haze 15, Tweaker, DRRI). It's mostly in the form of added sustain. I never heard any dramatic increase in gain in my SCXD. Again, this is with the channel volume on 10, and then I compared the results with an attenuated setting to remove speaker breakup from the equation.