Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

S

SixtiesRick

New member
Before my dad passed away in 2013, he gave me his guitar, a '49 Old Kraftsman (made by Kay or Gibson) archtop electric. I understand it was, at best, a mid-level guitar, ordered through the Spiegel catalog. It was the first guitar I had ever sat in my lap from the age of seven, and the one I learned all my basics with, and it was his gigging guitar. It has a lot of sentimental value. I had a restoration luthier go over it, and now it is definitely a joy to physically play... nothing short of fabulous.

Here's the problem: The single factory pickup, mid-position as it is, sounds absolutely terrible. The pots are clean with no crackling as they are turned. Plugged into an amp (any amp, I've tried it in all ten that I own), starting out with the amplifier tone controls set flat, guitar tone and volume wide open, it is pure treble screech, and literally sounds like I'm playing though a bullhorn. As I roll the guitar tone knob back, nothing much happens until I am about 3/4 of the way back, then it suddenly and rapidly cuts back the treble, but also loses volume. I can finally find, in the tiniest of adjustment, a sweet spot. The total sweep in which this sweet spot occurs is so tiny, I'd estimate it as less than 1 degree in the arc. Past that sweet spot, all highs are cut, and the sound is weak and muffled.

I have been making it work by firstly finding that sweet spot, then tweaking the amp and saving the amp control settings as a preset in order to become more "plug and play" friendly. This is why I actually bought a Fender Mustang III amp, totally dedicated to this guitar, figuring that at 100 watts, I should be able to run with the pack in an ensemble setting. Well, yes, now I can, but only barely, and I know it's still not right. And heaven help me if I accidently bump the guitar tone knob while playing, the screech actually hurts. The pickup is too quiet even in the sweet spot, so using a spacer I raised it up closer to the strings, but that didn't help.

I am looking for a clean but "big" tone for this guitar, as I do a lot of fingerstyle. The amp controls can do a lot, but I know that this guitar's electronics should at least give me a starting point similar to other guitars, even the cheapest ones I've ever plugged in aren't as bad as this. I shouldn't need to run the amplifier that hot in order to achieve a reasonable sound level.

I realize that guitar electronics of 1949 were primitive, but I don't want to simply rip the original pickup and electronics out for some state-of-the-art replacement. What would be my options? Could I get the original pickup (and possibly also the pots) somehow redone? Pictures below.

20170511_145443.jpg
 
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Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

More images from before restoration:

untitled.jpgIMG_5519a.jpgIMG_5520.jpgIMG_5523.jpg

After restoration:

20170511_145751.jpg
 
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Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

First of all, awesome guitar with a great story! [emoji1303]

I get that you don't want to replace the pots, but there's probably no real difference technologically between the ones in there and new ones. Still, you can try squirting a little electronics cleaner in there and twisting the knobs to see if it's just a matter of getting some grime out of the way of the wipers. It might help.

Personally I'd replace the pots (not necessarily the cap), then decide what (if anything) to do about the pickup.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

Thanks for the reply. I'll admit I don't know the first thing about guitar electronics, but in talking to the guys that did the restoration on this guitar, they said they'd already done the cleaning of the pots, and that they looked and tested good. He suggested I post in this forum, or possibly contact the custom shop to see if they'd consider servicing the actual pickup, whether it needs to be rewound or whatever. I get that old or cheap pickups squeal when the amp gain is too high and you get too close to the speaker, but this is something different. Then I saw mentioned in other threads that even in storage, pickups can go bad. I know that this guitar didn't sound this bad when my dad played it back in the 60's, even through his old Newcomb amplifier, or his Ampeg Reverberocket, which I still have. It's so magnificent to sit and play this guitar, if I could just get it to sound good plugged in, the package would be complete.

I found a pic of my dad's setup, this was taken in 1950, I know it had to be at one of their gigs because he was wearing a tie. LOL

scan0001.jpg
 
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Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

great story and a very cool guitar. your pup could be rewound if that is the issue but it may not be necessary. it sounds like the controls arent functioning properly so id start with looking at those. its possible the tone control is wired in an odd way or has deteriorated to the point it doesnt function properly any longer. if you arent that savvy with guitar electronics, id have someone who is take a look at it. if the controls are shot then for relatively little money they can be replaced with new ones.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

I'm going to look for a reputable local guy in the Detroit area, I'm hell-bent on making this work. Thanks.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

From the description given, my take is that the p'up's magnet lost most of the charge.

Re-charging it would be my first move.

HTH,
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

I would contact SD Custom Shop and rewind it for something Charlie Christian-esque or your given sound, the looks would remain similiar and it would sound awesome.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

The pickup in that can be restored to sound like new, or like a working 70 year old pickup, your choice. The first step is to contact the Custom Shop and ask what the options are.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

Nice story!
If your goal is to preserve everything possible then getting the pickup redone is your best bet. Duncan is priced very competitively - I would not trust anyone local.

Once the pickup is working properly if it's still odd and funky then replacing both pots with new ones of the same Ohm value for a few dollars each should get you set.

The ONLY other possibility is that the wire itself it corroded and you're only getting a very small amount of signal. It could be the wire from the pickup to the pots (which a rewind will automatically cure) or from the pots to the output jack.

But the pickup seems the most likely culprit. I have had problems with the wiring on some old guitars but it was always because someone had messed with it OR a jack or pot came loose and got turned until it pulled all but a strand or two of the wire loose. It doesn't sound like your guitar has experienced either of those problems.

Does anyone know if those paper-in-oil caps can go bad over time? I have no idea.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

I might suspect the paper-in-oil capacitor has dried up and way out of spec so it's not operating like a proper cap, it just suddenly goes to ground at one point. I might consider replacing that before anything else. You could test it by just touching a newer cap of the same value over both ends of the old one and see if the pot starts behaving something closer to what you expect.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

Well, we changed the pots and the cap, which cured the "finicky sweet spot adjustment" problem, but the pickup is only functioning at about 50%. All the techs I've talked with agree that it's time to either replace or recondition the pickup. As I'm hesitant to cutting any wood on this instrument, I think a rewind would be the way to go, and Seymour Duncan was the first name that came up, every time. I'm thinking a P90 sound, but I gotta talk with the custom shop people. Anyway, anyone have any idea on what the turnaround time might be for something like this? I was just wondering if anyone reading this might have an idea...
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

SixtiesRick said:
anyone have any idea on what the turnaround time might be for something like this? I was just wondering if anyone reading this might have an idea...
Click to expand...
Yeah, The Custom Shop turnaround usually is between four and six weeks.

HTH,
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

The custom shop exceeded my expectations with the rewind job they did on the pickup from my dad's archtop. This guitar sounds great through any of my amps, though the Fender Mark III is the one I mainly use. Problem solved. Excellent job guys, and it didn't break the bank!
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

SixtiesRick said:
The custom shop exceeded my expectations with the rewind job they did on the pickup from my dad's archtop. This guitar sounds great through any of my amps, though the Fender Mark III is the one I mainly use. Problem solved. Excellent job guys, and it didn't break the bank!
Click to expand...

Cool! Great story, happy ending.
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

SixtiesRick said:
The custom shop exceeded my expectations with the rewind job they did on the pickup from my dad's archtop. This guitar sounds great through any of my amps, though the Fender Mark III is the one I mainly use. Problem solved. Excellent job guys, and it didn't break the bank!
Click to expand...

Wow, very cool! Is there a way we can hear it now?
 
Re: Vintage Old Kraftsman archtop electric problem

I'll figure out a way to record and post. Life is throwing things at me right now that I have to prioritize, but it'll come together. I'm just not set up to record anything just yet, but I'll eventually get to it.
 
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