Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

[LLL]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Good morning.

Not sure where to respond i.e. here or on YOUR thread (on the link above). But figure I'll limit myself to here (so as not to pollute YOUR thread!!! LOL!!!).

TOO funny that SoundCloud blocked the upload!!! That means you are GOOD my good man!!! Well done!!! And I like your version too. Very much.

And by the way: thanks again. Were it not for you I'd never ever have even bothered with amp. sim. software ever again. This being said: my recording wasn't done with the BIAS stuff though (even although I ended up buying BIAS FX Pro. as well). It was done with JamVOX using the presets sent to me so kindly by the other dude on this thread (his real surname is "Iommi" would you believe) that covered "One Night In The City". I just cannot get BIAS to sound good WITHOUT double tracking (but I have to admit didn't spend too much time with it). Also: I think that fancy (expensive) pre-amp. of yours does something (nice) to your tone.

Your tips on my recording are noted!!! LOL!!! But hey: my "crowd" of mine covers up my mistakes!!! LOL!!!. But you're right i.e. I reckon my "crowd" could do with a bit of compression and some dialing back!!! LOL!!!

But I shall get there (love your solo on YOUR thread by the way).

Interesting to note though: my "live" version is modeled on the live version as found on "Intermission" (the tone and style anyway). On Intermission: you'll note that the rhythm has a sort of "midrange honk" or "midrange quack or quarck" to it and it's more staccato (as opposed to the smoother, more legato, studio version).

I need to get this out of my amps. now (this tone). I'm getting there. Must say I've spent a lot of time with them and I've discovered that this Boss GE-7 is VERY sensitive to even the slightest bit of movement (with my guitars and amps. anyway). With the DM SD I can indeed get a nice "midrange honk" and I'm betting the Invaders are gonna round all off and do the trick (and HOPEFULLY I'll hear something about them today).

I've got loads of Dio/Campbell backing tracks (some extremely good and some not that great). I have to pop out to the shops quick but when I get back I'll upload to somewhere for download (no point in even trying SoundCloud).

Anyways. Thanks again. In spite of my rather "raw" attempt it's the closest I've come to what I'm looking for and that could be life changing for me lemme tell ya!!! I owe you (and everyone else on this thread) big time!!!

Regards,

Dale.

Well a big thank you to yourself for giving me the impetus to hack away at this tone; always wanted to get Viv's DIO tone down but just never got around to it.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Alright "oh great one"!!! LOL!!!

Here it is again (same recording) but using YOUR exact Waves GEQ settings (with JamVOX etc.) and with the "crowd" dialed back slightly (and about three quarters of the way through I ran out of "crowd" so you can then hear just the backing track with the guitar for a few seconds i.e. didn't fade out early this time):



It loses a bit of my "midrange honk" though (and to me starts sounding a bit "sterile" or "studioish") (and, of course, accentuates the shortcomings in my playing) (although I don't feel too bad at all i.e. it's the very first time ever I've actually bothered to play this song through from start to finish and certainly my very first and only attempt ever at some type of solo for it) (and things can only get better from here of course now that I actually feel like getting the music down perfect).

The good news: my Invaders (well the bridge one anyway) have (has) been cleared. The bad news: will only receive on Wednesday morning!!! Uuurrrggghhh!!!

P.S.

A man of MANY talents I see (hear)!!! (I'm "following" you now on SoundCloud!!! LOL!!!). You flipping NAILED this too:



P.P.S.

I got the entire song laid out in MIDI with Vinnie Appice's kit (BFD3) if you're interested (could generate a WAV file of course). Would have to manually add the bass line though.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Sounds really good Dale, but too much audience participation cause they drown you out in both versions and I found my self being drawn to Ronnie's voice as is the case no matter who is playing.
I particularly liked the isolated (somewhat) vocals. It was awesome to hear how he doubled and tripled his voice on the chorus and other sections. Imo one of the best voices ever, he never failed to impress me at any stage in his career cause he always put his heart into it. Voice of a God I say!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

Thanks for the compliment. But a long way to go now (addressed below). And yip: "Voice of a God" sums it all up. It really does. If nothing else: even with a crappy guitarist (like myself in my recordings above) he still sounds great!!! LOL!!! As long as you know the songs as an audience: you're good to go as long as he's singing!!! LOL!!!

Now listen up everyone!!!

It's just past 4:00pm in the afternoon here and the last day of the year. I got some (lot of) cooking to do, gonna put Dio on, and gonna have myself a drink or two (give or take!!! LOL!!!). But before I go I wish to say the following:

THANK YOU to EVERYONE on this thread INCLUDING those that I have upset from time to time with my inane questions and long posts (I apologise). Believe it or not: this thread has changed things for me in a big way. I know many don't understand this while others will say it's just plain wrong: but unfortunately I'm just one of those people (although I know I'm not alone) that just CANNOT move on and "get it on" if I don't have my tone. Prime example (and was not joking in my comments above): the above is the first time I've managed to play Rainbow In The Dark through WITHOUT just playing the first few bars and then stopping to tweak a parameter or something (and then invariably getting frustrated with the sound and not accomplishing anything further). Point is: for the first time in a very long time I actually cannot wait to simply get down and work on my playing. Everything else is great (my gear, my software, even my recording, mixing, and mastering abilities) but this tone issue has frustrated me no end. And thanks to this very thread: I believe I've reached a pivotal point and am in a very good place. And I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I really do. And goal for this coming year is but one single minded goal: to practice my ar*e off, get every last Dio song perfectly down (solos included), and hopefully, then, I shall find peace (and maybe a paying gig or two!!! LOL!!!). And just think: if I ever become famous you can all say "well it all started right here on SD"!!! LOL!!!

Happy New Year!!!

and

Thank you all for everything!!!



And this is for ALL OF US (seems appropriate at this time i.e. last song from 1984 "Special From The Spectrum" and end of the year):

P.S.

You know you've spent too much on gear when you forget you have something!!! LOL!!! Video just reminded me that I have a laser capable of projecting 3D animation and text. Gee. Wonder where THAT idea came from!!! LOL!!! First thing I did when I got it: created a "Dio" animation and plastered it all over the living room walls!!! LOL!!! Looks real nice with fog!!! Hhhmmmnnn......... Sounds like a plan for tonight......... Cheers. I'm outta here. Have a good one all. And take care of yourselves.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

We search for the truth
We could die upon the tooth
But the thrill of just the chase is worth the pain

I enjoyed this thread very much and I think I too will punish my liver today and maybe learn Invisible.

 

[51501984]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

This is a cool Dio/Viv song to jam on guitar to , one of my favorites at least

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

For anyone that may be remotely interested:

While looking for some backing tracks for a good friend I found a Vivian Campbell guitar tutor DVD that I forgot that I even had (it is BY Vivian Campbell i.e. not by somebody else). So I figured I'd upload it here for download. Note the file contains the full DVD structure and files so it should be burned to DVD (but you can extract the file, copy the .VOB files to an different folder, and watch them individually if you want).

So far as I know: it can no longer be bought legit anymore (I actually have it on VHS) so I don't even know it it's still subject to copyright. If it is and somebody complains I'll take it down (but before anybody thinks of complaining: it's just my way of "keeping the dream and the music alive" so please do bear this in mind i.e. it's in no way meant to take pennies from the artist).

It's not beginner stuff though. But Vivian gives some insights into his style (and whatever else).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1w4aWLpBOv9UdCDkcgpEb_DCoJilYLEba

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Very cool, Dale.
I’ll DL this later when I get home.
Thanks!

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

^^ Agreed same here! Cant wait to see this, I never heard of it before...

Dale, Im sure everything is good to go and your intentions behind this are good. Hell I bet Vivian forgot he even did this! I'll buy him a gift card for Sweetwater so he can get a used Gibson strap or something.. Idk he is so hard to buy for...

Thanks man!

 

[STLMTLHD79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

Thanks for the compliment. But a long way to go now (addressed below). And yip: "Voice of a God" sums it all up. It really does. If nothing else: even with a crappy guitarist (like myself in my recordings above) he still sounds great!!! LOL!!! As long as you know the songs as an audience: you're good to go as long as he's singing!!! LOL!!!

Now listen up everyone!!!

It's just past 4:00pm in the afternoon here and the last day of the year. I got some (lot of) cooking to do, gonna put Dio on, and gonna have myself a drink or two (give or take!!! LOL!!!). But before I go I wish to say the following:

THANK YOU to EVERYONE on this thread INCLUDING those that I have upset from time to time with my inane questions and long posts (I apologise). Believe it or not: this thread has changed things for me in a big way. I know many don't understand this while others will say it's just plain wrong: but unfortunately I'm just one of those people (although I know I'm not alone) that just CANNOT move on and "get it on" if I don't have my tone. Prime example (and was not joking in my comments above): the above is the first time I've managed to play Rainbow In The Dark through WITHOUT just playing the first few bars and then stopping to tweak a parameter or something (and then invariably getting frustrated with the sound and not accomplishing anything further). Point is: for the first time in a very long time I actually cannot wait to simply get down and work on my playing. Everything else is great (my gear, my software, even my recording, mixing, and mastering abilities) but this tone issue has frustrated me no end. And thanks to this very thread: I believe I've reached a pivotal point and am in a very good place. And I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I really do. And goal for this coming year is but one single minded goal: to practice my ar*e off, get every last Dio song perfectly down (solos included), and hopefully, then, I shall find peace (and maybe a paying gig or two!!! LOL!!!). And just think: if I ever become famous you can all say "well it all started right here on SD"!!! LOL!!!

Happy New Year!!!

and

Thank you all for everything!!!



And this is for ALL OF US (seems appropriate at this time i.e. last song from 1984 "Special From The Spectrum" and end of the year):

P.S.

You know you've spent too much on gear when you forget you have something!!! LOL!!! Video just reminded me that I have a laser capable of projecting 3D animation and text. Gee. Wonder where THAT idea came from!!! LOL!!! First thing I did when I got it: created a "Dio" animation and plastered it all over the living room walls!!! LOL!!! Looks real nice with fog!!! Hhhmmmnnn......... Sounds like a plan for tonight......... Cheers. I'm outta here. Have a good one all. And take care of yourselves.

I had that Dio video on VHS as a kid. Just want to note, if you pause the video at the 3.14 mark, Viv does a pick slide and you can CLEARLY see the Duncan Invader in that charvel clear as day.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

I had that Dio video on VHS as a kid. Just want to note, if you pause the video at the 3.14 mark, Viv does a pick slide and you can CLEARLY see the Duncan Invader in that charvel clear as day.

Yip. Me too (VHS) (not as a kid though!!! LOL!!!). Still have it actually. Even went to the trouble of digitizing it and making a DVD (with chapters and all!!! LOL!!!). Quite proud of my work actually!!! Matter of fact: even went to the trouble of buying a STEREO VHS player for this video back then (they were not very common, nor cheap, back then) (at least not here anyway).

I looked at the 3:14 mark. And fair enough. Must say that for a time I thought I could see flat chrome pole pieces (in "Stand Up And Shout" at the beginning of the concert) but, turns out, was just the way the light was catching the pole pieces. Take a look at around 7:15 or so in the video below. At first they look like flat chrome pole pieces but the moment he pulls the guitar upward and away from the camera you can see the telltale "domes" of the Invader's pole pieces (well: correct me if I'm wrong anyway). Pity about the quality i.e. sure would be easier to see if the quality was better. Do you think the FBI would be interested in digitally enhancing this video so that we can all see, once and for all, EXACTLY what the f**k was going on!!! LOL!!!

Anyway. I am SURE hoping to find out once and for all, and finally and forevermore, in the not too distant future, about this guitar (yes: YOU KNOW who I'm talking too!!! LOL!!!).

P.S.

Take a look at around 8:25. Was another reason for getting a laser!!! LOL!!! Apparently (I've heard it said): this stuff was pretty "cutting edge" in 1983/1984???

P.P.S.

Of course now cannot drag myself away from watching and get something else constructive done!!! LOL!!! But would like to say: that tone is NOT by ANY means a "generic" tone!!!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Dunno where to post anymore (so figured I may as well stick to this thread).

Dunno what it sounds like yet but it sure does look good (pic. doesn't really do it justice!!! LOL!!!):

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Yea Im curious to hear Vivians answer about that Charvel myself, so as you said we shall see. I figured it would be a long shot anyways, but within a week I had you pointed in the right direction which surprised me as well.
I figured JCGuitars or some other known collectors grabbed it up or perhaps like I said it didnt survive.
Hope it works out and you can get it!

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Def looks like you’ll have to shim your neck and raise your bridge to gain some clearance between the strings and poles.. looks like its gonna be pretty tight there..

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Man that invader just looks MEAN, doesn’t it?

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Before I go any further I decided to "go the extra mile" for you dudes!!! LOL!!!

I took the main part of the Vivian Campbell tutor DVD, converted it, and uploaded to YouTube (as below). It's "Unlisted" which means that theoretically it's only accessible from here (crass attempt to not step over any copyright lines!!! LOL!!!).

But do note: the DVD itself has many additional features so if you want these features you need to download the file above, extract, and burn to DVD.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Girls and Boys, I present Mr. Vivian Campbell (and the crowd goes wild!!! LOL!!!):

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Now for the good stuff!!! LOL!!!

I am IN AWE!!! LOL!!! This Invader is BOSS!!! LOL!!! Seriously: I got my very own "midrange honk" NO problem and right out of the gate AND on my beloved Marshall CODE amps. to boot!!! MAN OH MAN it's AMAZING!!!

Now let me calm down and give you the low down!!! LOL!!!

There is a HUGE difference between the Invader and the DM SD. As expected: it's got a lot less bottom end, loads of mids., and oddly enough it seems to have a lot less treble than the DM SD as well. Put it this way: in this guitar it's taken out any "shrillness" whatsoever and I'm left with a CONTROLLABLE and EXTREMELY clean and articulate bottom end. Up until now with this particular guitar: with the stock Jackson pickup as well as with the DM SD I've been running everything with just about NO bass whatsoever because the bass was overdone and muddy no matter WHAT I did. And, of course, it has the most awesome "midrange honk".

So there ya go (after all this). Obviously some tone tweaking is in order now. But I'm 100% sure I'll finally get my "live, woody, gnarly, midrangy" tone WITH my amps.

I am SOOO happy that I reckon a video is in order!!! LOL!!!

Anyways. Time to pay this guitar some attention now i.e. new strings, intonate again, put back the tone pot. and switch (would not do this if it didn't look so "spare" i.e. never use tone or the neck pickup) and, above all, a real nice clean (poor thing has been neglected since I started with all of this).



Only ONE thing though (and the more I've worked with this guitar the more I like Jackson!!!): it sure appears to me that ALL Jackson stock pickups are F-spaced even if they don't say so. Even the stock Jackson pickup that I took out of this guitar is wider than the DM SD F-spaced pickup that I've just taken out i.e. all strings fall "dead on" a pole piece with the stock Jackson pickup which was not the case with the DM SD and is not the case with the Invader. In other words: an F-spaced Invader would be PERFECT here. How much of a difference this would make to anything other than aesthetics I know not (and don't think I'm gonna bother).

Oh and I had no problem setting the Invader to 1.95mm i.e. the pole pieces still stick out of the pickup ring no problem on the treble side (action is set lower on the treble side on this guitar). And for some reason or the other: this pickup in this guitar is so articulate sounding I reckon I could probably actually raise it to Jackson's 1.6mm standard without any muddiness problem. Go figure!!!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Alright. I dunno if I should be posting here or starting a new thread for this (please feel free to advise). For now: I'll stick here.

All is not what it seemed I'm afraid. The guitar sounded great when I first put the Invader in (with just a 500kΩ volume pot). So I then decided I would wire up the whole thing properly (tone pot., Jackson neck pickup, switch, etc.). Even sprang for a Switchcraft 1/4" jack!!! Long story short: the moment I plugged it in it sounded "muffled" for want of a better word i.e. whatever tops there had been had all but disappeared (talk about JUST having mids.!!! LOL!!!). I have also since discovered that the Jackson neck pickup (two wire) is out of phase with the Invader. So in short: I'm now "gatvol" (that's South African slang for "I've had enough of this fu*king sh*t"!!! LOL!!!).

So. I've now stripped the guitar AGAIN (and this IS THE LAST TIME). The plan really is to not worry about what's functional and what's not anymore (not the way I'd usually do things and sure is going to take some getting used to on my part). So to this end: I've swapped the pickup rings around. I've put the thicker/higher one at the neck (with the Jackson neck pickup and this just to fill the space really) and the thinner/lower one in the bridge (with the Invader and this done so that the Invader can be adjusted WITHOUT it going below the pickup ring i.e. to ensure that it sticks out) (after adjusting yesterday it looked ridiculous i.e. only a small portion of the top of the pole pieces was sticking out above the pickup ring). I'm going to put in a 1MΩ volume pot with no tone pot. and not going to wire the switch (but will leave a tone pot. and the switch to cover the holes is all). And of course: only going to connect the Invader and have done with it. The white Charvel only has one darn pickup (Invader) anyway so scr*w it. I'm so close to the tone and I'm done with mucking about with this it's now down to what I can accomplish tone wise as opposed to aesthetics. Thoughts anyone??? Anybody think of anything I've missed before I put this darn thing together again???

 

[Gtrjunior]

Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

If it sounded great before you wired it all completely then it’s probably not the 500k volume pot.
First thing is to wire it up without the tone control, like you said. But use the current 500K pot.

As far as the pickup rings, the important aspect is the distance of the pickups to the string. Not how much of the pickup sticks out above the ring.
In the above pic the invader looks waaaay too high. The strings aren’t hitting the pole caps? Or at least really close to hitting?

The OOP issue with the Jackson pickup I believe can be fixed by reversing the hot and ground of the pickup. Somebody with more knowledge than me can please correct me if that is wrong but I think I remember reading that somewhere.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Vivian Campbell's Dio tone from 1984 - which pickups

Hello.

Thanks for that.

I've pulled this thing apart so many times are wired and rewired it's a jiffy to do it again if I'm not happy!!! LOL!!! I'm gonna put a 1MΩ volume pot in just to see (take me five minutes to put a 500KΩ back in if needs be). Aside from the issue I had with the pickups and whatever else: I was actually quite taken aback by sheer amount of tops I'd lost with the Invader. Got my mids. but at quite a big expense of tops. So I'm figuring the 1MΩ pot. may be the sweet spot. I'm also putting 9's back on this guitar i.e. I remember how much treble boost I got with 10's even before I started mucking about with all of this (this is evidently a very "bright" guitar). Maybe the combination of the two will be "it". Suppose I'll see in the next hour!!! LOL!!!

After I'd set the top of the Invader pole pieces to 1.95mm under the strings (fretting last fret) the pole pieces were only JUST above the pickup ring and it looked ridiculous (and no idea if it makes any difference to tone or not i.e. some say yes while others say no so I'm gonna err on the side of caution). They look very high in the pic. because I'd not strung the guitar yet and set the pickup height. Very glad I decided to do this though i.e. after I removed the Invader I noticed that I had not even 1mm of thread left on the adjustment screw on the treble side. Had I decided to take the Invader down further the pickup would have come loose from the pickup height adjustment screw and that would have sent me over the edge!!! LOL!!! So yeh: the way it's setup now is like "normal" and nothing is at its limits.

I thought about just reversing the wiring on the Jackson pickup but nah. At the end of the day (as we all know) I was after a specific tone and I got it (and think I'm there now). I have never ever played with both pickups active nor have I ever played with the neck pickup so I figure why complicate matters and possibly sully the tone of the Invader. It may be worth mentioning though that the out of phase tone wasn't half bad actually!!! It had quite a bit of a "quack" to it and some more treble. But unfortunately the power dropped by about half. But yeh. Wasn't a bad tone at all to be honest (and no humming or anything like that either).

I will tell ya this much though: I have new found respect for whichever Chinese or Korean or Japanese person (Chinese in this case I'm almost sure) solders up these three way switches!!! LOL!!! Was really easy de-soldering the darn thing but MAN was it a mission again to put all the wires back correctly!!! LOL!!! Nope. Never again. At least not with a used switch (much easier if you soldering a new "virgin" switch I would imagine).

Yeh look. This is not how I normally would do things nor the way I want them. But at the end of the day (trying to be mature here): it's the tone I get out of this guitar with the Invader that counts. If by some or the other miracle I wanna play other stuff then I've still got my white Jackson and the Blaze for that stuff. The Invader is definitely THE BOSS (for my tone I want) so may as well stop here and get on with playing i.e. I really don't think it's worth stripping the whole thing again to put in a neck Invader (which reminds me: I'd better cancel the flipping order for the neck Invader if I am able to).