Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

[ErikH]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

The LSR in my Strat was professionally installed and works quite well. The tone of the guitar is still there, no tuning problems, no problems using .009's on it, although I tend to put .010's on it more often. It just works.

Once I build my Tele, I'm planning on buy a few nut blanks and taking a stab at cutting my own. The plan is to go with graphite.

I guess the one benefit of getting one pre-slotted (not string-up ready but just lightly slotted) is there's at least some sort of guide on where to cut the final slot.

I've asked Pete (BachToRock) about the Warmoth necks he got with nuts installed and he said he hasn't had any problems.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

The graphtech nut on my Warmoth nut was cut ok, but it needs to be touched up. The strings bind in it a bit (they did more when it was new but it gets better the more I use it), graphite nuts need to be cut properly for them to improve tuning well, otherwise they can make it worse.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Of course the other problem with the LSR nuts is that you have no control over the individual string heght. This is quite a serious issue if you try to fit one to neck with a tight vintage radius.

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Thanks guys, keep the tips coming!

Okay, for me what would be the safest or best bet. Go with a graphite and learn to touch it up myself if needed, or have them accomodate for the LSR and install the LSR myself? Would I be able to install the LSR myself, and have it straight and correct?

I have an AM DLX with LSR, so I know how it feels, sounds etc. and I like it. This particular guitar stays in tune well with pretty heavy trem use. I use 10's. The frets I'll use will most likely be the 6105, or maybe the jumbos. Would there be any problems with this? I know Warmoth said they take the fret size into account when cutting the graphite, but they don't install LSR's, just cut the extra wood off for them.

Thanks!

 

[rspst14]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

I'll throw in my recommendation, just to give you another option to think about. I ordered my Warmoth neck with the LSR routing, then I got an Earvana OEM nut to go with it. The OEM version is the one that looks more like a traditional nut, there's no messing with the base and the screws and the top piece. It fits perfectly into an LSR nut slot, all it takes is a little filing of the slots to get it perfect. I didn't have to sand down the height or even the sides, it fit perfectly. Remember that the LSR nut requires a small amount of wood to be removed at the slot, so you won't be able to switch from an LSR to a traditional nut without serious modifications to the slot. The Earvana OEM requires the same amount of wood to be removed as the LSR does, so those two nuts are interchangeable. I've found the Earvana OEM to be superior to a traditional nut in every way, and if you order the neck with the LSR routing, you won't have to modify anything in order to install it. If you didn't like it, you could always switch to an LSR nut. Just my opinion.

Ryan

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Thanks for the tips!
If I got the neck with the LSR routing from Warmoth, do you think it would be easy for me to install the LSR correctly, and straight? I've never done one so I don't know. I know there's shims incase you need more height? On the warmoth site it says that the LSR is only available for 1 11/16'' nut width. If they route it this way, would it be fairly easy to line up and get straight with the strings?

I was thinking If I put the LSR on myself, then I would have the neck and everything else fitted and all I would have to do is line it up good, since I would'nt have to file any slots. Do you guys think it's doable for a non-tech/luthier?

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Well, as i stated in a very complex thread several months ago, I wouldn't recommend an Earvana nut for the same reason I wouldn't recommend Feiten etc. because the whole idea behind nut compensation is flawed and based on ignorance of musical theory, the mathematics of harmony and the rules of equal temperament.

The modifications to the fingerboard required for the LSR nut are for a different reason, it's because the string sounds from the axis of the ball bearings rather than the front of the nut.

As with anything, if you've used it before and it works for you, go for it again.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

I was thinking If I put the LSR on myself, then I would have the neck and everything else fitted and all I would have to do is line it up good, since I would'nt have to file any slots. Do you guys think it's doable for a non-tech/luthier?

I'm afraid it's a much harder job than fitting a conventional nut.

If you f**k up when you're fitting a normal nut you can usually recover it; at the worst you might have to fit a new one. If you get things wrong when fitting an LSR though you are looking at a very expensive repair job.

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Could you tell me why?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Hehe we need more guys like you OctaveDoc
I am so sick of all these wonder sollutions, nothing will ever beat good hard work by a person with his/hers hands set right, and a mind to follow.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

I've got an LSR on my strat, and it's served me well so far. If the slot is cut properly (by a pro, definitely don't try that yourself) then fitting the nut assembly isn't really that tough, I did it myself with no trouble. There are shims provided if you need to raise it some, which of course means if the slot is too shallow it needs to go back to the shop. The slot in my neck was cut by USACG, so it was dead on.

LSR advertises that the roller nut is meant for radii in the 9.5"-12" range, so they pretty much assume no vintage radius users would try it on their guitar anyways, much less complain when it didn't work correctly.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Could you tell me why?

You need to remove a sliver of wood from the end of the fingerboard. I'm not sure of the exact amount, that would be in the fitting instructions for the nut.

This needs to be done very precisely. If you have the skills and the tools to do it (the very minimum would be a razor saw and a very sharp 1/8" chisel). This procedure is probably not so difficult, but if you get it wrong the end of the fingerboard need to be rebuilt and that's not so easy.

The bottom of the nut slot also needs to be dead flat; on most strats the slot base follows the fingerboard arc.

The nut is held in place by two small cross head screws. There isn't much margin for error in your choice of pilot drill. In fact, the fitting instructions specify an exact diameter in thousandths of a inch. Probably a bit over the top but I've known it happen where someone's underestimated it and snapped the head off one when attempting to tighten it. They seem to go in fine so far then they try and force it and ping! Off the head comes..

You can get the broken screws out, but just try getting replacements without buying a new nut...

Also the screws are quite long and if you misjudge the angle of the drill you can end up with it emerging from the back of the neck.

This is just a taster; there's a lot more to it but i'll have to defer as I am going out now, later guys.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

You need to remove a sliver of wood from the end of the fingerboard. I'm not sure of the exact amount, that would be in the fitting instructions for the nut.

This needs to be done very precisely. If you have the skills and the tools to do it (the very minimum would be a razor saw and a very sharp 1/8" chisel). This procedure is probably not so difficult, but if you get it wrong the end of the fingerboard need to be rebuilt and that's not so easy.

The bottom of the nut slot also needs to be dead flat; on most strats the slot base follows the fingerboard arc.

The nut is held in place by two small cross head screws. There isn't much margin for error in your choice of pilot drill. In fact, the fitting instructions specify an exact diameter in thousandths of a inch. Probably a bit over the top but I've known it happen where someone's underestimated it and snapped the head off one when attempting to tighten it. They seem to go in fine so far then they try and force it and ping! Off the head comes..

You can get the broken screws out, but just try getting replacements without buying a new nut...

Also the screws are quite long and if you misjudge the angle of the drill you can end up with it emerging from the back of the neck.

This is just a taster; there's a lot more to it but i'll have to defer as I am going out now, later guys.

Yeah, cutting the slot is definitely best left up to an experienced pro. Fitting the nut itself isn't so bad, as if the slot is cut right the LSR should fit in there nice and tight. The mounting screws are tiny, they tell you exactly what size screwdriver to use and not to apply to much pressure. As OD said, if you break one of the screws you're in deep doo-doo.

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

You need to remove a sliver of wood from the end of the fingerboard. I'm not sure of the exact amount, that would be in the fitting instructions for the nut.

This needs to be done very precisely. If you have the skills and the tools to do it (the very minimum would be a razor saw and a very sharp 1/8" chisel). This procedure is probably not so difficult, but if you get it wrong the end of the fingerboard need to be rebuilt and that's not so easy.

The bottom of the nut slot also needs to be dead flat; on most strats the slot base follows the fingerboard arc.

The nut is held in place by two small cross head screws. There isn't much margin for error in your choice of pilot drill. In fact, the fitting instructions specify an exact diameter in thousandths of a inch. Probably a bit over the top but I've known it happen where someone's underestimated it and snapped the head off one when attempting to tighten it. They seem to go in fine so far then they try and force it and ping! Off the head comes..

You can get the broken screws out, but just try getting replacements without buying a new nut...

Also the screws are quite long and if you misjudge the angle of the drill you can end up with it emerging from the back of the neck.

This is just a taster; there's a lot more to it but i'll have to defer as I am going out now, later guys.

I was going to have the LSR route done by Warmoth.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Excuse my scepticism, but how can you accurately cut a nut until it's on the guitar with the strings installed?

My first question as well...

Second question re Warmoth: where´s the point of cutting a nut if the Frets are still supposed to be dressed???

This is what i hate about the industry at the moment, there is so much kidology around; Pleck machines, LSR roller nuts, locking tuners, relic guitars, BS tempered tuning schemes...

Wise up guys, it's all just ways of squeezing money out of you.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

:beerchug:

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Second question re Warmoth: where´s the point of cutting a nut if the Frets are still supposed to be dressed???

Well, it's all part of this culture we live in where we are encouraged to expect everything to be done for us so we don't have to actually contribute anything.

Many folks come into the shop and are surprised when i tell them that I can cut and fit a nut for their Strat/Les Paul/ESP/Whatever but I can't just sell them something that will just drop in and work straight away.

One guy came in the other day, didn't like my price for a replacement nut and said "Oh i know this chap who builds guitars for a hobby, can you just sell me the nut blank and I'll take it to him and he'll do it for me".

Yeah right.. I guess he goes into MacDonalds and asks if he can just by a raw patty and take it down the road to Burger King for them to grill it...

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Yeah right.. I guess he goes into MacDonalds and asks if he can just by a raw patty and take it down the road to Burger King for them to grill it...

:laugh2: Awesome analogy! I'll have to remember that one.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Hehe we need more guys like you OctaveDoc
I am so sick of all these wonder sollutions, nothing will ever beat good hard work by a person with his/hers hands set right, and a mind to follow.

Thanks for that.

It's like i always say,

"It's not the size or shape of the tool that counts, it's the man behind it"

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

Thanks guys I appreciate all the help, but everyone's forgetting one thing. I don't have anyone near me that does nut work. So I need to figure out what would be the best choice for me of the two I listed.

Also, Warmoth does'nt dress the frets?

 

[tone]

Re: Warmoth nuts and LSR vs. Graphite tuning stability and tone

I've got an LSR on my strat, and it's served me well so far. If the slot is cut properly (by a pro, definitely don't try that yourself) then fitting the nut assembly isn't really that tough, I did it myself with no trouble. There are shims provided if you need to raise it some, which of course means if the slot is too shallow it needs to go back to the shop. The slot in my neck was cut by USACG, so it was dead on.

LSR advertises that the roller nut is meant for radii in the 9.5"-12" range, so they pretty much assume no vintage radius users would try it on their guitar anyways, much less complain when it didn't work correctly.

FretFire,
I was going to get the LSR routed from Warmoth so I assume it would be pretty dead on. The neck also has a compound 10-16" radius. After you got yours routed by USACG, could you tell me what the installation consisted of? Was it hard to get straight and correct? Any tips?

Thanks!