Went back to real single coils.

[Nagisa]

I have a beautiful gold US Strat that came with fat 50s. Liked them a lot except for the weak bridge.

Went from a hot rails bridge to ssl-5, then thought I wanted a shreddable strat and did the injector/area 67/injector thing.

Well it was much more shreddable but honestly my LP and Ibanez still sounded better for gainy leads in almost every situation.

And I really missed the single coil tone.

Put back in the 50s neck/mid and ssl-5 bridge. I think it's going to stay this way - god the cleans are so much better. The neck and middle are just better all around except for heavy gain. The bridge I like about equally, with the ssl-5 able to do a better strat tone and injector able to go heavier and thicker.

The hum is back but as I have emi issues in my house and the "noiseless" pickups don't help with that, it's not that a big a difference in overall noise unless I crank the gain.

Just a story of my strat journey. I'm going to use the strat like a classic strat and let my humbucker guitars do what they were meant to do.

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

FWIW, I found position 2 to be more Stratty with an Injector Neck in the bridge with a Lace Gold in the middle, than an SSL-6 and an SSL-2 in the very same guitar. The top end of the Injector was warmer, but overall it is a more versatile pickup. 250k volume and tone, no tone on the middle. The Neck was also a Lace Gold.

I forgot what the internal shielding on the Injector looked like, but I'm betting the Lace Sensor will handle the EMI issue better, provided the rest of the guitar is adequately shielded.

 

[Nagisa]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Yea I imagine lace or maybe actives would cut the noise well, but right now the fat 50s sound pretty good. I think it's a pretty cool trio of guitars with less overlap this way, too. Classic strat, heavyish LP, prestige with evolutions.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

I’m using the Ilitch backplate/spring cover to eliminate hum on my Strat w/Duncan Surfers...which are true single coils.

Similar noiseless system to what John Suhr uses on his “Strats”.

Works very well and retains the vintage tone.

Noiseless Strat and Tele pickups might have a “good” tone, and a lot of guys are satisfied with that..but none get quite the same tone and feel of 50’s and 60’s Strats.

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Yea I imagine lace or maybe actives would cut the noise well, but right now the fat 50s sound pretty good. I think it's a pretty cool trio of guitars with less overlap this way, too. Classic strat, heavyish LP, prestige with evolutions.

That is a cool trio of guitars!

I've been tempted to get a second SSL-2, but I like gain and hate hum. Besides, I find a glassy top is my nemesis for high gain stuff and I like a single coil in the neck with high gain. I think Strats can do hard rock, heavy metal and shred just fine and feel that they can fill a much different role from LPs and Super Strat shred sticks while still sounding like a Strat; and for that I would not do an Injector set.

With that in mind, my next strat project will likely have a VV Blues/Area 61/Area 61 with a treble bleed, but there are still many other projects that take priority. The Injector Neck makes a very good bridge pickup, but I think it's a tad too hot and smooth in the treble against a pair of vintage output pickups, hence the decision to go with a VV Blues. With the VV Blues there should still be just enough extra beef in the bridge and plenty of bite without the extra chime in all three positions...until I back off on the volume. I imagine I can get an RP for the middle to get better notch positions by splitting as well. I know the Area 67 would do a better job for positions 2/4 without having to do any splitting, but I prefer the tone of the Area 61 in position 3. I don't use the middle with high gain, so a Lace Emerald might be the best compromise. It has better voicing than the 67 and more glass than the 61.

If I went with Kinman, this should be a good high-gain friendly set that would still be versatile for cleans:

AVn-69/Scoop/AVn-59*
(*) an AVn-62 Mk-III would be better for cleans; an SCn would be better for soloing​

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Noiseless Strat and Tele pickups might have a “good” tone, and a lot of guys are satisfied with that..but none get quite the same tone and feel of 50’s and 60’s Strats.

...that you've tried. Check my signature.

FWIW, I'd rather have a Surfer bridge than the SSL-6, and if I had one I'd be more content getting another SSL-2 for the neck ... except my high gain tone will suffer.

If I was in Nagisa's situation and wanted a more traditional Strat I'd have done the same thing, not because of the difference in structure, but because the Injectors are hot and have more midrange push in their respective positions and I don't like the underwound character of the 67 in the middle. Given the choice I'd take a pair of SSL-1s over the Fat '50s, though.

Back on the Kinmans...

For a more traditional Strat for cork-sniffers (you know who you are), I'd do this set:

Impersonator A56 in the bridge and a pair of Scoops​

Kinman has a large selection of models and combining them into sets seems worthy of discussion. That said, I should really start a new topic rather than hijack this one.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

I always liked the Ernie Ball 'Silent Circuit'..and active dummy coil system that eliminates hum. Other than that, I am happy with noiseless pickups.

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Honestly, I doubt the OP intended to make this a referendum on noiseless solutions.

In terms of tone (again)...
The Area 67 is far closer to a CS69 than a Fat '50.
The Injector Bridge is a different animal from the SSL-5, and like the bridge version, the Injector Neck really has no equivalent tone to any of the typical single coils.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

It's a shame that Fender has included noiseless stacks in their premium Strats, it leads to this perception that they're the "best", but the truth is that if you define "best" as "authentic", then a stack is not the best, and is instead a compromise. The issue is very simple: the bottom coil cancels out some "good" signal. If you run the top coil all by itself, there's a ~3.5dBV boost over running both coils in series. Wimpy output means you're not pushing the front of the amp as hard, on whatever other consequences that might have on how you perceive the "tone".

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Dummy coils do either the same thing or something similar.

Pushing the amp as hard means nothing to people who have an amp with a gain control or put boost pedals in the signal path. In some cases people might prefer pushing an amp less hard. In other cases the stacks are already hotter than traditional singles when wired in series (STK-S4, for example). Compared to vintage-output singles the Areas and Injectors have no such trouble, either.

...but if you want to strawman the DiMarzio HS series as your baseline that's your prerogative. I'm not buying it though. I can't speak to Fender noiseless, but if your intention was to malign only them then you might want to make that a little more clear.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Dummy coils do either the same thing or something similar.

Pushing the amp as hard means nothing to people who have an amp with a gain control or put boost pedals in the signal path. In some cases people might prefer pushing an amp less hard. In other cases the stacks are already hotter than traditional singles when wired in series (STK-S4, for example). Compared to vintage-output singles the Areas and Injectors have no such trouble, either.

...but if you want to strawman the DiMarzio HS series as your baseline that's your prerogative. I'm not buying it though. I can't speak to Fender noiseless, but if your intention was to malign only them then you might want to make that a little more clear.

Even if everything you've said is true, it still differs from a plain old single coil, and is therefore inauthentic in terms of how it performs.

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

it still differs from a plain old single coil, and is therefore inauthentic in terms of how it performs.

...which may or may not be noticeable to the performers or the audience, unless they are operating from preconceptions and a-priori knowledge.

BTW and FYI: there is no 3.5 dB gain when splitting a Duncan STK-S4, only added chime (and hum); not that I'm holding the STK-S4 as the gold standard of stacks, but I'm well aware that others definitely do.

@Nagisa: sorry to have contributed to what is turning into a sh!t-storm. Based on previous history, you can bet that Pico will insist on having the last word at every turn. I'll happily compare single coil voicing, but as far as noiseless vs. traditional single coil performance goes: I am done.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

...which may or may not be noticeable to the performers or the audience, unless they are operating from preconceptions and a-priori knowledge.

Well, if we measured meaningful difference based on audience perception, there would really be no need to ever swap pickups in the first place.

BTW and FYI: there is no 3.5 dB gain when splitting a Duncan STK-S4, only added chime (and hum); not that I'm holding the STK-S4 as the gold standard of stacks, but I'm well aware that others definitely do..

The 3.5dB value is based on a Fender Noiseless. I can't speak to the STK-S4, but I understand that there is not stacked humbucker design that completely overcomes the issue of having a noise cancelling dummy coil that is coaxial with the primary, so I'd be rather surprised if there was no increase in volume when splitting to the top.

@Nagisa: sorry to have contributed to what is turning into a sh!t-storm. Based on previous history, you can bet that Pico will insist on having the last word at every turn. I'll happily compare single coil voicing, but as far as noiseless vs. traditional single coil performance goes: I am done.

This is a friendly discussion about stacked humbuckers. This is not about having the last word, it's merely that I have something to say to you in reply.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

Yea I imagine lace or maybe actives would cut the noise well, but right now the fat 50s sound pretty good. I think it's a pretty cool trio of guitars with less overlap this way, too. Classic strat, heavyish LP, prestige with evolutions.

I think you did the right thing. Especially if you’re happy with the results. Fat 50’s and a SSL5...seems like a good call!

 

[gregory]

Re: Went back to real single coils.

happy with the results

+1

That is all that matters.