What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

[Lewguitar]

A couple of months ago my brother Bruce found me a killer Fender silverface Princeton Reverb amp. Bruce recapped it, changed the tone caps in the preamp for more of a plexi Marshall tone, and put a Weber VST C10N/Q speaker in the amp.

Killer, growly, deep, full and surprisingly loud and expressive tone! I just love it.

This amp, along with my modded blackface Deluxe Reverbs, has become my main amp.

I love it so much I bought another one - this time a '66 blackface Princeton Reverb. The amp came with new tubes and had recently been recapped by a tech other than Bruce...but it was ready to go.

The seller had replaced the original Jensen speaker with a cheap Italian made reissue Jensen C10Q. I like, but don't love the Jensen reissue C10Q, finding them a little to brittle on top, even after being broken in. I've owned a few, all of them given to me by players who didn't like them either! (laugh!)

So when I plugged my guitar into this blackface Princeton Reverb I wasn't surprised that the tone was thinner and brighter and less inspiring than my silverface version of the same amp with the Weber C10N/Q.

But I was surprised and HOW MUCH thinner and brighter and less inspiring the tone was! The blackface amp sounds about 2/3 as loud and not nearly as full and deep. To be honest, it sucked! (I don't like to use that word but it's how I felt...and what came to mind!)

So I un-plugged the reissue Jensen in the blackface PR and plugged the blackface PR amp into the Weber C10N/Q in my silverface version of the same amp.

What a difference! Now the blackface PR sounds almost identical to the silverface amp. After I get Bruce to make the same small changes he made to the silverface PR to the blackface PR, I expect it sound as good or better.

All this to say that I can't emphasize enough how big a change for the better a great speaker can make to an amp.

In all of my vintage Deluxe Reverb amps (I have three...) I've changed the stock POS 12" speaker to a Celestion G12H30, and the result is that my 22 watt DR's sound like a 30 or 40 watt amp.

And the same diff came to my PR's when I changed to a Weber C10NQ.

Guys, if you own what you know is a good amp, but it's not loud enough or full enough or inspiring enough: GET A GREAT SPEAKER! Even if you have to spend $100 or $200 for it.

The speaker can make all the diff in the world in improving your amp's tone and since it's such an expensive item, most manufacturers do not use top quality speakers in their amps...you'll have to do it yourself.

 

[Surgeon]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

I have to agree with you on this one!

Sounds like you got 2 great amps now...

 

[jeremy]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

what is the c10nq now?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

what is the c10nq now?

Ted gives the speaker a differant number now, but he still makes it. I'm not up on Ted's new numbering system.

It's his version of the '66 Jensen C10N speaker (the top of the line in 10" speakers in Jensen's heyday) but uses a lighter cone (like that used in the C10Q or P10Q) to replicate the tone of years of aging and use.

The result is a speaker that responds faster and also has a bit more treble.

Ted reconed some original Jensen C12N's for me and upon comparing the recone to some originals C12N's I had with original cones we found that the tone was quite a bit darker in the recones and not as lively.

So next time we tried reconing with a lighter "Q" cone and the result was a speaker that sounded more like the orignals.

Lew

 

[SchecMan]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

Lew, you have a cool brother.

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

Props!

Vault vote.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

Lew, you have a cool brother.

Way cool. The coolest! You ought to hear him play drums sometime. Not only is Bruce one of the best and most respected amp techs on the planet, he's an awesome drummer! Lew

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

Great post Lew. Too many people (including me) forget how much of a difference a speaker can make, especially in a combo. We just evaluate the amp as a whole. If we are so picky as to choose which vintage style HB is the best, we should also take the time to evaluate different speakers. Too bad a place like GC doesn't have even some Eminence speakers in similar cabs to hear the difference.

What are the specs on the Princeton Reverbs and what are they going for on the market nowadays? Are they like between a Champ and a Deluxe?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

Great post Lew. Too many people (including me) forget how much of a difference a speaker can make, especially in a combo. We just evaluate the amp as a whole. If we are so picky as to choose which vintage style HB is the best, we should also take the time to evaluate different speakers. Too bad a place like GC doesn't have even some Eminence speakers in similar cabs to hear the difference.

What are the specs on the Princeton Reverbs and what are they going for on the market nowadays? Are they like between a Champ and a Deluxe?

Thanks! The Princeton Reverb is alot like a Deluxe Reverb but a little smaller output tranny for more like 18 watts of output and a 10" speaker instead of the 12" speaker in a DR. And one channel, not two. But who needs two channels...I can only play one guitar at a time and I haven't let an accordion player plug into the second channel of the same amp as I'm playing through in a long time! (laugh!)

The silverface PR goes for around $700. The blackface version goes for over $1000...I've seen them as high as $1300 but I wouldn't pay that much. The early 70's silverface can be made to sound just as good!

Lew

 

[newking70]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

have you considered putting a 12" speaker in your princeton's?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

have you considered putting a 12" speaker in your princeton's?

No...I already have three Deluxe Reverbs with one 12" speaker in each. I wanted something differant this time and I'm loving the PR's with one 10 each.

I'm a huge fan of 22 watt and under amps.

They're all I use anymore.

Lew

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

I'd really like to change the V30 for a G12-65 in my Engl Screamer and a 2x12 box loaded with Greenbacks....

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

I LOVE MY PRINCETON thru my G12H30 cabs, and even my V30 cabs.

GUY WHO INVENTED FIRE(Christian) has been urging me for months NOT to hack up my Princeton, but rather to add the same Weber VST speaker you mentioned above.

IIIIIIIIINTERESTING!

Christian made me a die hard Princeton convert. Nice to read this post!

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: What a difference a GREAT SPEAKER makes!

What are the specs on the Princeton Reverbs and what are they going for on the market nowadays? Are they like between a Champ and a Deluxe?

Here's the Fender Amp Field guide entry for a Blackface Princeton Reverb

Two 6V6s for 12-15 watts. One channel with reverb and tremelo - it's a different tremelo circuit from the Deluxe Reverb (called "bias vary tremelo" instead of the opto-oscillator circuit in the D.R.). 10" speaker.

Here's a modernized version: Allen Amps "Sweetspot" Not cheap, but supposed to be a really good take on the Princeton Reverb circuit.

Jeremy - Ted Weber strongly recommended his 10F150T for my Princeton Reverb project - very light doping and well broken in by Weber. It's listed as a C10Q replacement. The 10F150 is shown as the C10N.

Sorry, I've been researching and building a Princeton Reverb clone for months and REALLY need to finish it up. Circuit board is loaded and soldered, and the chassis is fully prepped. Speakers came in today, so all I have to do is mount the circuit board, solder up the connecting leads, and go through the start-up procedures...

Chip